8th string lower - sudden new problem

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

I noticed while playing on last Saturday [with band] I was having a big problem getting the 8th [E-D#] string in tune with the knee engaged. It got close, but the furthur I turned
the wrench [in or out],the note would go beyond D#. This lever is RKL.

This has never happened before.

I did re-locate my LKL [E-F] over about 1/2",
as one anchoring screw/screw-hole on the fulcrum plate was starting to get stripped.

The only other move associated with the 8th string would be the [E]4th, where pedal 3 moves it to F#. LKL & RKL act on both 4 & 8.

Should I loosen up the E-F rod and the 4th string E-F# and then try to tune the E-D#.

It doesn't feel like anything is hanging up, but I haven't re-setup the steel yet to furthur check.
I play a Williams U-12.

I sure could use some help on this one.

Thanks all.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Hi Chip. You didn't mention what kind of guitar this was on. If an all pull guitar- start by loosening the pulls on the 8th string so that they are not doing anything and see if the problem persists. If it does, call me at the shop on Tuesday (10-5 PST) and we'll work it out- 760-754-2120.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Thanks for that offer Jim. Sorry - forgot to mention A/P vs P/P. It's definitely ALL PULL.

I just now got it set up and I'm taking a break and will get back to it shortly.

I'll be getting back; thanks again, friend.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Hiya Jim,

I forgot to mention that LKL also raises string 11 E-F.

AND - pedal 6 also lowers string 8 E-D#.

Anyway, I loosened all of them up, except for
RKL [E-D#] and I was immediately able to put string 8 right at D#. Then I re-tuned all the loosened ones, and everything now seems to be holding. Pedal 6, when I hit it, seemed way off in going to D#, so maybe in here lay the problem. I don't know how it got so far off.

I may have mistakenly started to tune it, thinking I was actually tuning another string, realized the mistake, went to the right rod, but then forgot to go back and re-tune pedal 6. Eyesight now, is not good.

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

Whoops - spoke too soon again. When I hit pedal 6 alone, the 8th E does lower to D#, but when I lower #8 with RKL it goes to D#, but when I hit pedal 6 with RKL engaged, there's no travel at all in the pedal, and thus no lower to D.

This is probably where all the trouble is.

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Two (E)'s to (D#)'s does not equal a (D)! [Two (E)'s to (D#) still only equals [(D#)]! If the first statement was true, there would be no limit to how low you could go!

------------------
“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

John,

My basic setup on the B6 side of things is the 6 pedal lowers 8 to D#. If the 8 string lower lever already has the note at D#, shouldn't the
6 pedal lower it another 1/2 step to D.

I'm not quite following you, here.

Either way, the 6 pedal lowers to D# without the RKL engaged, but when the RKL is engaged, the 6 pedal does not move. Like it's hit a deadend.

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 06 June 2006 at 06:28 AM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Chip
You need to be sure you have just A LITTLE slack in the mechanism.

Back off all the nylon nuts on the 8th string. Start with the max lower: P6 with the E to D on 8. Be sure that the pedal throw allows the entire lower to happen with just a bit of extra slack at the end. If not you will need to adjust the pedal travel to move just a bit further. If that lower works ok, then your problem with RKL may require you to add just a bit of travel to it as well. Then tighten the raises back up and see if you still have problems.

Just remember that if you are tightening the nylon nut further than the pedal travel will accommodate you need to let the pedal or lever have just a bit longer throw to make the entire raise or lower. You don't need a lot of slack but you do need a teeny bit.

You may need to adjut throw/travel when you change string gauges or even change from an old to a new string.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 06 June 2006 at 08:08 AM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

I wanna thank Jim, John, and Larry for their expert knowledge and assistance.

I actually took a harder look at my mechanics and learned better today how the crazy thing works.

It wasn't a matter of just loosening up all nylon nuts running string 8, but all of the nuts running string 4, as well.
It was actually the 3 changes on string 4 that were holding back pedal 6 from going down to D. I could only get it to D#, until I backed off the 4th [E-F]^[E-D#]^[E-F#].

I'm greatful fellas, and thanks again.

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