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Topic: Feel stop advice please |
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 8:24 am |
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i've been tryin' to get used to the "feel stop" i have on my Zum
first time i've had such a gizmo
string 2 : Eb to D & C#
i've found it uneasy to feel that stop right & be in tune on the D note
in order to feel the D position better i tightened the (return ? )spring under the changer.
that has helped 
what i'm havin' difficulty with is, comin back up to the D from C# & be spot on in tune on that D
How do you do it ?
i find the C# note usefull but i find myself solliciting the D more than C#
any advice, pointers or tricks y'all might have are welcome
Thanx 
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 9:18 am
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There are several ways to achieve a feel stop
On the 2nd string lower (usually including the 9th string D to C# lower) many players use the 9th string to set the half stop. That is difficult to get exactly right. The more holes your bellcrank has and the more patience you have in setting it up the better the result will be. You time the D to C# to begin to kick in when the 2nd string hits D by adjusting where on the bellcrank the pull rod is attached, causing the pull to start earlier or later as desired.
With that solution you have very little adjustment of the 'strength' of the feel stop since you're relying on the string tension on the 9th string to provide that resistance. Some players find all this adequate.
If you don't find that adequate, you can install an additional bellcrank, pull rod, and bracket, terminated by threads and a tuning nut going through the bracket. I know Bruce used this design in 1980 when he built my ZumSteel -- he may use something different today. In any case, the pull rod goes between the extra bellcrank and through the 'L' bracket. The bellcrank connects to the rod and on the rod is a set collar and spring that snug against the 'L' bracket. A spacer and tuning nut are on the far side of the 'L' bracket.
To adjust the midpoint note, you adjust the knurled tuning nut on the end of the rod. To adjust the strength of the feel stop, you loosen the collar and push the spring tighter against the 'L' bracket to provide more tension.
Hope this helps. 
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 9:57 am
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| Quote: |
| On the 2nd string lower (usually including the 9th string D to C# lower) many players use the 9th string to set the half stop. |
Works for me, found it by accident. Got it on all 3 Dekleys and it works great. |
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Peter
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 12:06 pm
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Consider using 2 and 9 for a half tone lower one one knee lever.
And add the 2nd string whole tone drop on another opposite kneelever, like the e to eb knee lever.
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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
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Adrienne Clasky
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 2:28 pm
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| Hi, CrowBear. I hate! the half stop on the 9th string, but I need a b7th up top. I've practised it for the two months I've had the new guitar (U12), and I've gotten better, but not good enough to use it out of the house. I can't think of a different place to put the lower without giving up something else. Okay, I'm greedy. I hope someone gives you an idea a newbie can understand. LOL. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2006 5:54 pm
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If you increased the tension on the lowering return spring on just the 9th string that would help- also if you are able to lessen the tension on the 2nd string return spring (assuming that the 9th string lower is being used to get the feel stop) that would give you a better feel as the D note is at pitch. Be careful that the 2nd string still returns to pitch if you attempt that. Other methods of getting a feel stop using springs that compress as the note in question comes into play are dependent on the characteristics of the spring being used- stiffer springs give a better feel but at the expense of increased force needed to continue the change. Everyone seems to have a different "happy medium" which is why I like to have the player there when I set one up so that it can be setup for that player.
The other point that you bring up is feeling the 2nd string coming back up to the D note from the C#. I've not seen any guitar that can achieve that reliably although it can be done. Mostly it's just experience that guides the player to that point. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 28 Apr 2006 3:10 am
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I hate half stops and refuse to have one on my guitar. I tune my 2nd string to C# and raise it to D on one knee lever, and to D# on another.
The knee lever that raises the string to D also lowers my 8th string to the same note, and the one that raises it to D# also lowers my 11th string to C# which gives me a bass not for the C# minor chord that you get with the A pedal.
Having the 2 second string changes on 2 different knee levers makes it necessary to have an extra knee lever, and since I already have 6, (including one to lower the G#s to G) I use a wrist lever to lower my B string to Bb.
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My web site
[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 28 April 2006 at 04:12 AM.] |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 28 Apr 2006 7:57 am
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Thanx for your side of thangs Mike
i have noticed that some like you, are not favorable to that gizmo
of course i'd prefer a full stop rather than a half stop
but shucks i got one & i wanna see if the two of us can get along
especially in the heart, (or is it heat?) of the action
Quite a rig there Mike[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 28 April 2006 at 10:09 AM.] |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 28 Apr 2006 8:56 am
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C-B,
You may talk to Bruce Z about the other style feel stop -- with the separate linkage and tuning nut. I believe you will find that solution is easy to install on your guitar if it's not already there AND may provide THREE benefits: Easily adjustable midpoint, easily adjustable tension on the spring, and POSSIBLY better tunability on the return from C# back up to D. Ask Bruce.
Even tho I am an 'x-Zummy', I have the utmost of respect for Bruce Zumsteg, both as a genius designer / builder and (perhaps most importantly) as a human being. I feel the same way about Jerry Fessenden.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 29 Apr 2006 8:18 am
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i hear ya' Larry
i too have the utmost respect for Bruce & his babies
i cannot blame my Zum but rather my own bad self |
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Randy Gilliam
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2006 9:52 am
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| Mike Is That a 5 Speed? Thanks Randy |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 30 Apr 2006 10:14 am
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Hey buddy.
I took mine off, but then started tuning 2 to D anyway.
I am considering putting it back on because I raise it to E
with G on top of P3 for the Bakersfield change split.
(not at all typical I suspect)
If I put it on the raise I can hit the D# cleaner
on those sometimes I want it. |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 30 Apr 2006 2:32 pm
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| David,Bakersfield change split,what's that?Thanks. |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 1 May 2006 8:34 am
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| Quote: |
| The other point that you bring up is feeling the 2nd string coming back up to the D note from the C#. I've not seen any guitar that can achieve that reliably although it can be done. |
As far as I'm concerned, the only steel guitar that can do that is the Wiesner - to be followed shortly by the new Schild steel. The halfstop in question was one of the very few things Paul Wiesner added when he made copies of the Schild in the early 90s (as some of you may remember). Although Wiesner was a bold-faced plagiarist, I must concede that his halfstop is unlike any other. It's simply perfect.
Hans |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 May 2006 11:10 am
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I have had my 2nd string drop on my RKL for years. It seems like I can feel the 1/2 stop better than on the RKR. If I'm not mistaken, Lloyd Green has it set up the same way.
Erv |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 2 May 2006 1:12 am
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Hanz, i'd love to check out a Schild
let me know where & when they're available
Brother Erv, Thanx for the input
i'm used to RKL bein' the Sho~Bud E to Eb
Bro D, Thanx also for your input too
[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 May 2006 at 08:02 AM.] |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 2 May 2006 2:46 am
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quote:
Hanz, i'd love to check out a Schild
let me know where & when they're available
Sure, I'll do that.
Hans |
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