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Topic: Question: How do you recover from losing your place? |
Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 5:39 am
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As a newish player I'd like to ask some of you for your input.
At my current stage I have been memorizing tab melodies to play along with a Bass player and a Rhythm Guitar player.
They have the luxury of looking at the chart while playing.
I look at my fretboard in order to 1. hit the right notes and 2. Have good intonation. Therefore I memorize the chord melody for each song beginning to end.
Sometimes I get distracted and lose my spot.
I'd like to build a repertoire of 40 songs so we can get out there and play a gig.
However, I fear that memorizing 40 songs the way I'm doing it could be setting myself up for lots of brain memorization which at 53 years old I forget more frequently every year. And this method without a safety net would be disaster on a gig.
How do some of you recover when losing your place in a solo?
Do you memorize the chords in the song by name? And if so do you target that next chord and arpeggiate until you recover?
Do you memorize the changes ie Nashville number system and if so do you have set tricks and licks for such changes?
Or better yet: How do you memorize the solo for the song?
Thank you for your input.
Steve _________________ Steve Marinak |
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Rick Barnhart
From: Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 9:04 am
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Learn to quote Sailor's Hornpipe in various keys. It comes in handy and audiences get a kick out of it. _________________ Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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David Knutson
From: Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 11:22 am
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Plus one for Sailor's Hornpipe. Smoke On The Water has also been known to work.
If you are mostly playing standard tunes or melodies that people know, then practice, practice will ultimately lead to muscle memory. I suppose we all have different tools for memorizing, but whatever method works for you, the better you know various scale patterns on your fretboard the easier it will be. It also means that if you do find yourself temporarily lost in a tune, knowing what scale you're in will help you to bluff your way back to a pickup point. And I truly believe that part of being a good player is being a good bluffer.
Another thing I try to do with new material is practice a song "chords only", start to finish until I don't have to think about it to play the song through. Then hopefully I will always know where my bandmates are if I fall out of a solo - and have to start bluffing. _________________ David K |
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Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 3:42 pm
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Thanks David! Good advice.
I agree on the bluffing part. It's like that in any profession.
"Fake it till you make it" they say! _________________ Steve Marinak |
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Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 7:50 pm
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Learn the arrangement - then practice NOT playing it exactly the way it was written.
Learn just minor ways of improvising - play simple stuff around the chord progression, then part of the arrange,ment, then just "stuff" around the chords again and so on.
If you lock yourself in to playing tab note-for note you will continually get lost, stop, and stumble. Learn to play the instrument, not the arrangements. All players improvise at times - sometimes to be creative and other times to stall for time because some part was forgotten. _________________ No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Terry VunCannon
From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2017 9:48 pm
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I had rather not memorize, but familiarize with the material and on a good night just flow with the music. Does that make sense? |
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Paul Seager
From: Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 1:04 am
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I know what you are going through and I think we've all experienced that moment of losing one's place. I am not a great soloist and quite often run out of steam or just forget which chord I am playing over so my usual trick is to do a long slide up or down and hope I figure out what comes next! Now I've read this thread, "Sailors Hornpipe" is going in to my practice routine!
I used to visualize songs on the fretboard and not think so much in chords. This worked well until I joined a jam session where the singer called all the songs I knew but in different keys. After that I took my handful of warm up songs (the 5-6 songs I learnt when I started on steel) and change the key each time I practice. Its slow at first but once your brain has adapted, it gets easier and you learn the fretboard!
I'm almost 56 and age is not an excuse! Another tip is to imagine the songs whilst doing another, physical activity. I often do this when jogging or walking. You're playing inside your head so yes, you are looking at a fretboard but you are recalling it rather than playing on it.
\ paul |
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Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 5:14 am
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Thank you everyone for your input. All great advice. This certainly helps me progress forward in my playing. _________________ Steve Marinak |
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David M Brown
From: California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 9:13 am Re: Question: How do you recover from losing your place?
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Steve Marinak wrote: |
How do some of you recover when losing your place in a solo?
Do you memorize the chords in the song by name?
....
Or better yet: How do you memorize the solo for the song?
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I always want to know the chord changes by heart when soloing - as a long time jazz guitar, player this is my "comfort zone" and as such it helps me NOT lose my place in a solo.
I don't "memorize" a solo - solos in my world are improvised.
In an arrangement "part" of a song may be memorized, but to be a solo I think you have to be able to play off-the-cuff extemporaneously.
Perhaps the only other trick I may offer is to know the scale (and key center if the song moves around) I'm soloing in and if I do get lost, stay with that scale until the next chord tells me where I am.
But mostly I try not to get lost. |
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Steve Marinak
From: Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 10:45 am
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David, I probably should not have used the term "solo", but instead used "melody". Solo implies that the soloist can invent whatever they want and it's their moment to shine.
I agree with your thoughts, I need to learn the changes, even with the task of playing the melody. That way if I lose the melody, I can "solo" my way out of it! LOL
And with all the tips given previously, like practicing the melody and embellishing it, practicing it in multiple keys, knowing the key center of the song, and learning all the changes, I should be able to tackle this going forward.
Coming from a guitar background of very simple arrangements, I, IV, V's mostly; Hawaiian and Standards are a new ball of wax. Many of these songs will use chords that are not in the root key. It's as though you have key center changes briefly in some spots.
Thanks for everyone's feedback. I appreciate the advice. Looking forward to practicing with your ideas. _________________ Steve Marinak |
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John Rosett
From: Missoula, MT
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 11:29 am
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David Grisman recovers very well after losing his place on national television. At 5:34, he starts playing the bridge part instead of the second A part:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIbL9uw139s _________________ "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny." - john waters |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2017 2:34 pm
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Stop playing and give the band a full measure to cover for you. You can call it a "rest". Don't come back in until you recognize the chord change or whatever cue makes sense.
To prepare for such mishaps, practice the chord changes using different inversions or voice leadings, and be able to play the melody in two registers. |
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David M Brown
From: California, USA
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Posted 25 Nov 2017 7:39 am
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Steve Marinak wrote: |
David, I probably should not have used the term "solo", but instead used "melody". Solo implies that the soloist can invent whatever they want and it's their moment to shine.
I agree with your thoughts, I need to learn the changes, even with the task of playing the melody. That way if I lose the melody, I can "solo" my way out of it! LOL
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That's the spirit!
As far as the melody, though, do your best to learn it cold. Then you will rarely get lost. |
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