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Topic: Sarno Blackbox? |
Bob Grado
From:
Holmdel, New Jersey
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 3:01 am |
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| This is a superb sounding mini rack. Simple, light and does everything I want. Just add a powered speaker cab. |
This is the exact same rig I'm currently using. Can you tell me where's the best place to put the wet reverb ( or other effects) in the chain ?
I love the sound but have to say I wish it had an effects loop.
Also, Is the Black Box really necessary when playing thru the V8 since they both use tubes? |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 5:18 am
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.....and Brad and/or experienced users, another mystery to me is the variance knob. Could you elaborate more on it. It's a another subtle and unobvious factor....
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 5:52 am
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| Brooks Montgomery wrote: |
| .....and Brad and/or experienced users, another mystery to me is the variance knob. Could you elaborate more on it. It's a another subtle and unobvious factor.... |
Impedance = Z
The Vari-Z knob, as we call it, is a "variable input impedance" or "variable loading" control. It is a tone control that works by including the pickup's coil as part of the circuit. This vari-z knob will dial UP or DOWN the most bite-y, cutting treble component of the pickup's tonal response. It's actually a pretty dramatic tone control.
Most of us are used to the pickup tone you get with a 500k "impedance load" because that's what all the classic volume pedal pot values were. These days with active pedals, the impedance can be higher or lower in some cases. Since this is such a critical factor in determining the overall tone of the instrument, we decided to make this impedance factor, aka "loading", easily controlled with a knob.
It seems that when given total control with a vari-z knob, most steel players will gravitate to the tone of their pickup when it sees a load somewhere in the 150-kOhm to 400k-Ohm range, even a bit mellower and warmer than what they'd get from a typical 500k pot pedal. But some find it useful to be a bit brighter and more snappy with a higher load impedance above 600-kOhms.
Many of us have found that by having total tone control of the pickup itself, we can really balance things out at this stage long before we ever hit the EQ in the preamp or amp that we use. It gives us tremendous control over the harshness and hard treble that often comes from a steel. I find that each pickup has a sweet spot, and being able to fine-tune that tonal response from any pickup is a very useful thing to have.
I put this control on our Black Box, Revelation, Tonic, and FreeLoader.
B |
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Bob Grado
From:
Holmdel, New Jersey
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 6:02 am
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Brad,
Can you please tell me if my setup (see below) is optimal to get the best sound out of my rig running direct to the board?
Steel > BB > VP > reverb > V8 > DI box > Board
I'm under the impression that the BB should run direct to the steel with the shortest cable possible (close to the pickup) to be most effective. Is that correct?
Your input is greatly appreciated as always. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 8:05 am
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Bob: The V8 sounds great without the BB, but even better with it. The tone is just a bit creamier. It's a very warm tone without being muddy. Your signal chain is exactly how I run mine up through the V8. After the V8 my signal goes to a Matrix power amp and then to a Black Widow 1501-SB.
I have the xlr output on my V8, but I've never been impressed with it. PA speakers with horns always sound way too harsh. A microphone on the Black Widow sounds much better to me.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 8:38 am
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thanks Brad, really helpful info on both the warm-up time and the 'z' knob
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2017 6:12 pm
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| Bob Grado wrote: |
Brad,
Can you please tell me if my setup (see below) is optimal to get the best sound out of my rig running direct to the board?
Steel > BB > VP > reverb > V8 > DI box > Board
I'm under the impression that the BB should run direct to the steel with the shortest cable possible (close to the pickup) to be most effective. Is that correct?
Your input is greatly appreciated as always. |
That's the ideal chain you listed. And yes, go for a good, short cord from guitar to SGBB.
B |
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Craig Bailey
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Posted 16 Sep 2017 7:38 pm
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Brad, are you saying my BB needs to be between my steel and VP?
I have been running it between my VP and amp. Also, how often, of ever, does the tube inside the BB need to be changed?
Thanks,
Craig |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2017 8:57 am
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| Craig Bailey wrote: |
Brad, are you saying my BB needs to be between my steel and VP?
I have been running it between my VP and amp. Also, how often, of ever, does the tube inside the BB need to be changed?
Thanks,
Craig |
That's the standard "rule", that the Black Box goes first so the pickup sees it directly before anything else. But if you use a pot pedal, you can put the BB after the VP if that sounds better. You won't get the same responsiveness from the Vari-Z knob/tone-control. But generally, the Black Box works best as the very first device after the guitar.
Tubes can last, generally, between 2 and 10 years. Vintage tubes may last virtually forever.
B |
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Craig Bailey
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Posted 17 Sep 2017 5:58 pm
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Brad, this is very helpful information. Thank you so much.
Another question, if I am also using a Benado Effects for my steel (it has reverb, delay and natural overdrive), where would that go in my chain in reference to my Black Box? Would it be:
Steel>BB>VP>Benado effects>amp?
Thanks Brad! |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2017 9:02 pm
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| Craig Bailey wrote: |
Brad, this is very helpful information. Thank you so much.
Another question, if I am also using a Benado Effects for my steel (it has reverb, delay and natural overdrive), where would that go in my chain in reference to my Black Box? Would it be:
Steel>BB>VP>Benado effects>amp?
Thanks Brad! |
The Benado Steel Dream is really cool in how he has a way of properly inserting your volume pedal AFTER the overdrive stage and BEFORE the reverb/delay section. So the way to do it with a Black Box and Steel Dream is like this:
Guitar
Black Box INPUT (also Black Box tuner out to tuner)
Black Box OUTPUT to -
Input to Steel Dream
Steel Dream Output 1 or 2 (according to Benado manual) to input of -
Volume Pedal -
Volume pedal OUT back into -
Benado In/Recive jack
Benado Out/Send to amp
B |
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Craig Bailey
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Posted 19 Sep 2017 3:36 am
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Brad, thank you for the wonderful info and the wonderful products!
Craig |
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