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Topic: E9 tuning for 8 string. |
Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2017 12:19 pm |
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| In band class and classical guitar lessons when I was coming up, the words retard and retarded described a stipulated musical event. The term has been used from the beginning of western musical notation centuries ago - but that was before the PC police came to town and declared the word off limits to everyone. I may be a little red around the collar so, I always kinda veered off when the term art-form and artist came up, but worrying about what he meant by using the word never crossed my mind - I thought we were talking about music... this is a steel guitar forum isn't it? I may be out of line but, it seems like we are surrounded by this form of arrested development everywhere these days. And, I was just looking to a group of steel guitar players much more knowledgeable than me to pick their brains about their experience with the STEEL GUITAR. |
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Bobby Nelson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2017 12:40 pm
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| "in C6th tuning, where are the dominant inversions?" (sorry, I don't know how to copy and paste haha). Stefan I'm using the version of C6 I posted before, and today I've been messing around with Floyd's Guitar Blues, which is an old lap steel song from the big band days. I used to pair it w/a Stormy Monday type T-bone Walker song, and played it live for years. I often wondered the same thing about most of the tunings I've seen for lap and console. But today, after a couple months of limited time fooling around w/this thing, have started to find them - and a lot more lush cords up the #'s food chain. It, to me, has to do with slanting and which string clusters (grips?) you use. I am falling in love with this thing and wondering why I spent so many yrs limiting myself w/a 6-string. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2017 9:40 pm
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
With a standard C6th tuning where on earth are the dominant inversions. They seem to be hugely missing???
Or am I missing it. Just the simple 7th chord I can't find all 4 basic inversions. R-3-b7.
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Well, on A6 I can get 2 7th chords by pulling strings behind the bar.
simple 6 string example:
open tuning
E
C#
A
F#
E
C#
pull the F# to G, instant A7th chord
or
pull the A to A#, then it's an F#7 chord
It works for me. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 14 Aug 2017 3:11 am
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Seems to be odd to me.
The awesome strength of Reece's C6th tuning is the arpeggios. For Major and Minor but no Dominant makes me wonder what was played when dominants were used.
As for inversions I say this because I have been able to achieve all core (Key inversions) of Dominants easily on my tuning. But I have always wondered what C6th players do when its happening on the band stand.
Ei13th#9/F for me its easy Stright bar and reverse slant.
But I am intrigued in the Methodology and approach.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 14 Aug 2017 1:55 pm
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Stefan, I can only share my experience, but I don't think it's too unusual among lots of steel players. I play 8 string in a 6th tuning (G6 in my case for some odd reason).
In the bands I play with, the steel's job is not to establish the chord structure, specific inversions, etc. of a song, but to add colour and movement to what is already established by the rest of the band. I try to think of myself as a small (like 2 or 3 piece) horn section, fattening the chords a bit or adding subtle harmonies to the singer/melody, and taking my solos when they come up.
So, when I'm looking to add a dominant feel to a line, I'm just looking for a couple of notes - trumpet and alto sax - to help lead the tune in the direction it wants to go.
One of the things I really like about your posts, and your way of exploring this instrument, is that you remind me to consider what are the exact right notes that I want the "horns" to play to add to the band without clashing and making sonic mud.
_________________
David K |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 5:19 am
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| David Knutson wrote: |
| .... sonic mud. |
I love that term. Sounds like a Canadian Grunge band. Like "Our Lady Peace or Age Of Electric"
Good points on playing just the key things but just wondering what are the options when playing a dominant?
Do you just play a 7sus4/sus2 chord or a 6th chord giving it when faced with a dominant?
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 8:26 am
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[quote="Stefan Robertson"]
| David Knutson wrote: |
Good points on playing just the key things but just wondering what are the options when playing a dominant?
Do you just play a 7sus4/sus2 chord or a 6th chord giving it when faced with a dominant? |
On A6 tuning, one simple 7th chord trick I use a lot is this:
hit major chord on strings 3, 2 and 1, say at the 5th fret - it would be D F# A.
Then I mute string 3 and slide up to the A and C, strings 2 and 1, 8th fret. This is the 5 and b7 of the D.
If you want, you can let string 3 sound but you have to pull it to F# behind the Bar.
Also, you can use a reverse slant at frets 8, 1st string and fret 9, 3rd string for a juicy tritone, C and F#. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 8:30 am
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I forgot to mention the other option I use a lot on my 6 string doubleneck.
Closer neck is tuned to A6 (B11 alternate), back neck to E7 ( E7/C#m alt).
I just jump to the back E7 neck for 7th chords. |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 3:55 pm
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For me, the dominant chords often come as passing chords in lines like - I (or I6) to I7 to IV - pretty basic stuff. My G6 tuning, like the A6 tuning, looks like this,
5
3
1
6
5
3
1
6
So if I'm playing a chord that includes 1, 3, and 6 - and I drag it back two frets I have a nice fat 9th chord (b7, 9, 5) with a few possible voicings. No 3rd, no root, no worries, the band has that covered. Still with a straight bar I could extend it further to 11th if I want to get jazzier. And then there's those juicy slants that David M Brown mentioned.
_________________
David K |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2017 7:53 pm
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| David Knutson wrote: |
My G6 tuning, like the A6 tuning, looks like this,
5
3
1
6
5
3
1
6
So if I'm playing a chord that includes 1, 3, and 6 - and I drag it back two frets I have a nice fat 9th chord (b7, 9, 5) with a few possible voicings. No 3rd, no root, no worries, the band has that covered. Still with a straight bar I could extend it further to 11th if I want to get jazzier. And then there's those juicy slants that David M Brown mentioned. |
Those 9th chords are lovely movements! It works really well where it would work as a 5 chord, getting that 9th effect.
Oddly, I actually began on G6! I still use it for Cajun music with a C accordion.
I had a gap between playing A low bass and later on, and was playing G high bass (Dobro tuning) when I was shown the 6th tuning.
Later I moved to A6, mostly to keep tunings with an E on top. Plus, there's more material for A6.
Thanks for posting. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 16 Aug 2017 9:55 pm
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That's more like it.
The detail I wanted to know.
b7, 9, 5 - great any other ideas on how you would tackle a dominant chord on C6.
Trying to learn the approach theory then apply it to my E13#9/F.
so a dominant 9th with 5th as melody note is substituted for a dominant 7th.
Keep em coming as I think to analyse it would be a great breakthrough so it can be applied to any tuning.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 16 Aug 2017 9:57 pm
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Thanks as well David for the two ideas for root position and a Drop 2 implied voicing for a dominant 7
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2017 2:08 am
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| You are very welcome! |
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David Sisson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2021 8:43 am Newbie to E9
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So gents...NEWBIE post. I see no one has really commented on this thread in a while and I rolled in here looking for information that I didn't really get but am hoping someone can steer me towards the right location or source. I have recently picked up a Triple 8 Fender Custom and after several misfires in the last 20 years finally have something more than a single 8. My front neck was modified by someone (probably in the mid 1950's) with two changers (strings 2+3) operating from a single lever but it came with no linkage or pedals. After a bunch of wild goose chases, time and trouble I finally just ordered a few parts and hit the McMaster-Carr catalog and revived the pedal myself with a friend, re strung it and set it so I can get the E-A change and my tuning is as follows 1-8.
Pedal x Up = E9
E -1
B -5 -x
G#-3 -x
F#-2
D -b7
B -5
G#-3
E-1
Pedal x Down = A13
E -5
C#-3 -x
A -1 -x
F#-6
D -4
B -2
G# 7 natural
E- 5
Because that E9 tuning was obviously what was intended by the previous guy and a slam dunk as the most logical choice I have it tuned as such. The intro to Slowly is just so easy and wonderful but after that...??? So while I'm pretty good with my middle neck in the C6+D9 tuning as that's my most used neck to this point and one I've got both experience on as well as one with much readily available internet information on, I'm trying to find more information/lessons/videos/chord charts/tunes on this particular early set up version of E9 with the single pedal doing two strings. I'm a long time guitar picker and B/G bender guy and C6 steel dabbler but this E9 is brand new to me and I'm having a difficult time hacking my way through the jungle all alone. I get the possibilities of the straight bar I-IV change and I see I've got a minor or 6th triad with the pedal down on 2-3-4 but pretty much after that I'm clueless on other chord clusters, slants or behind the bar bends available to me. When I try to look up information and transcribe from pedal steel videos, many pedal steel tunings are either different with a 3 on top or I guess I just don't understand how the pedals or knee levers raising or lowering which strings to which pitches work as to be able to transcribe what's available here to mimic with slants or behind the bar bends. Of course I know there's never a short cut to doing the work but like, more relevant resources would be helpful to me in terms of heading in the right direction. Does anyone have any advice for me on this as it's the near beginning of my journey on this tuning? And finally so we're clear my intention on this neck is to play C&W/Honkytonk noises primarily. Thanks in advance.
Dave |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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David Sisson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2021 8:57 am
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Mike,
Thanks for the reply. I didn't hesitate to jump on your recommendation and downloaded Buddy's Boogie. It took me a few frustrating moments dealing with app stores and such but finally got it figured out and well worth the $11 as you just opened up the bottom half of the neck to me! Thanks. I've got a way to go to really sort through this lesson but nice job. Thanks so much! I expected this neck to be more diatonic country flavored but jeez it swings like a mo-fugly! I did not expect that!
Cheers!
Dave |
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