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Author Topic:  pushpull help
Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 3:39 pm     Reply with quote

low B (10) keeps coming back sharp after pedals down. i tune it to C# pedals down then set the screw so that the string tunes to B. then I engage the pedals again to C# no problem but when I release my B is sharp again. any ideas ?
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Edward Rhea


From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 3:58 pm     Reply with quote

Loose bellcrank?
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Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 4:00 pm     Reply with quote

no, just checked. I've detached the rod and used my hand to move the finger on the changer to full pull and full release. I think theres something wrong w the changer as every time I release the finger it comes back sharper. Going to try a new string on it. strings arent old but maybe it'll help
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 4:47 pm     Reply with quote

Check the lowering return spring sir. When you release the pedal the changer should be sitting on the body. See if you can move it with your hand underneath. If you can that spring tension can be tightened a little.
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Mike Scaggs


From:
Nashville, TN
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:09 pm     Reply with quote

Bobby Boggs wrote:
Could be several things. I'll assume the changer is properly tuned.And the rod collar for the 10th string raise is not slipping. If so? I'm going to guess the 10th string roller nut is dragging or sized.


Yes, Roller nut is another great place to check
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Last edited by Mike Scaggs on 11 Aug 2017 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dave Magram


From:
San Jose, California, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:13 pm     Reply with quote

Hi Karen,

I own a P/P Emmons also. It has always worked well for me, so I am not a repair expert. Very Happy

The only time I ever had anything happen like what you describe is when I tried using SIT brand strings--my B strings and G# strings would not stay in tune for over a week. I finally took off the SIT strings and replaced them with a different brand, and--abracadabra, no more tuning problems!
- What brand of strings are you using?
- Is it the same brand you have been using until recently?

The only other thing I can think of is that something is preventing the 10th string from returning freely to the correct no-pedal position.
- I know you said you checked the return spring for string 10; but if the little rod-collar has slipped just slightly on it, the tension may not be sufficient for that big ol' string 10. (I installed a second rod-collar on several of my return springs as backup and for spares.)
- Have you checked for a loose string ball-end stuck in the changer?
- Is the changer properly lubed?

If it's none of those things, you might try contacting a P/P expert like Mike Cass, Jim Palenscar, or Lynn Stafford. Doesn't Tommy Cass live near Boston?

- Dave
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Bobby Boggs


From:
Upstate SC.
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:15 pm     Reply with quote

Could be several things. I'll assume the changer is properly tuned.And the rod collar for the 10th string raise is not slipping and the compression spring, (If it has one?) is not broken. If all is good with the pull train? I'm going to guess the 10th string roller nut is dragging or seized. For your problem. That's the first thing I would have checked.
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Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:26 pm     Reply with quote

i removed the spring that was behind the bell crank on the 10th string raise rod. this seems to have fixed it but I'm concerned that it was on there for a reason and should not be removed
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Bobby Boggs


From:
Upstate SC.
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:51 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
i removed the spring that was behind the bell crank on the 10th string raise rod.


Behind or in front of. I think of in front of as being on the key-head side of the bellcrank for raises. Behind the bellcrank for lowers. Just curious.
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Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 5:58 pm     Reply with quote

between bell crank and collar.

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Bobby Boggs


From:
Upstate SC.
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 6:40 pm     Reply with quote

Yes, that would have been your compression spring. First thought is the the collar was just a tad to close to the spring. And not allowing enough slack in the rod to return to correct pitch.

It's not a big deal to re-install and adjust out. The main advantage to having compression springs is so that all the pull's and or lowers a pedal has can be balanced when the pedal or knee is fully en gauged.

Yes it can be played without the spring. It won't hurt anything. And if string 5 has a compression spring even better. Still it will play better if it's re-installed correctly.

EDITED to say. I now see you don't have a spring on string 5 A pedal. It's not going to play very good. (The pulls won't be as well balanced) till you re-install the spring.


Last edited by Bobby Boggs on 11 Aug 2017 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 11 Aug 2017 6:43 pm     Reply with quote

its playing great now, but I will have Tom C check it next week when he returns. thanks everyone !
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 4:49 am     Reply with quote

Also as a relatively new PUSH PULL owner player, keep in mind that has stated above, things should not be too tight, some slack is required for these guitars. I would agree with Bobby above that the collar was probably just ever so slightly too close to the bell crank.

Shortly after I acquired my 1st P Pull, it was set up very nicely, played well, no tuning issues. But I decided to take a tad of slack out of the E's lowering to adjust the FEEL, well it gunked up the returns. I called a good friend P Pull guy ( Doug Palmer) I told him what I did, he just simple said, put it back ! I did and everything returned to normal. It made no sense at the time, but now it makes complete sense. Doug talked me thru the WHY.

P Pulls require some slack as opposed to the ALL Pulls
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Karen Sarkisian


From:
Boston, MA, USA
Post Posted 12 Aug 2017 5:01 am     Reply with quote

yes I agree, but when I moved the collar back from the bell crank it wouldnt raise all the way. It'll be interesting to see what Tom says when I bring it to him for a full tune up
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Bobby Boggs


From:
Upstate SC.
Post Posted 13 Aug 2017 7:31 am     Reply with quote

Not addressing Karen per say. But these adjustments can be very tedious. Often times a 1/16 of an inch or even less can make the difference in having the travel to make the raise or lower. And having enough slack to release to proper pitch. The best way to learn is just by doing it. After a while you develop a feel for it.

b.
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