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Author Topic:  pullrod adjustment
Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 25 Jul 2017 10:02 am    
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In setting up the pullrod adjustment, my intent is to set the base at 1/2 the full travel of the fingers controlling the changer. This allows room for both positive and negative adjustment with tuning screws. Your opinions on this please.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 25 Jul 2017 10:09 am    
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What kind of guitar?

Are you suggesting having the fingers pulled half way and tune the open strings like that? What would the advantage be. Your idea is very confusing to me.
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Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post  Posted 25 Jul 2017 11:04 am    
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It sounds like you are comparing the changer system to an electric guitar setup/ locking tremolo system, i.e., Floyd Rose, where the fine adjustment screws are intended to stay in the center of the adjustment range.

PSG does not follow the same principle of adjustment. If I'm way off on that assumption, let us know - but I think that is what the O.P. is talking about.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 25 Jul 2017 11:51 am    
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What kind of guitar?
Something like that is done with pull-release guitars, but it's a bit tricky (in fact some people still don't think they can both raise and lower the same string).
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More amps than guitars, and not many effects
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 25 Jul 2017 12:20 pm    
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If it's an all-pull (almost all modern guitars), the mechanism uses a scissor mechanism, with string tension holding the raising scissor against a stop bar, and the return spring holding the lowering scissor against the stop bar. When both halves of the scissor are against the stop bar, the part of the finger the string attaches to is in the neutral position.
See this page for a diagram: https://www.steelguitar.com/maps/changer.html

If it's a pull-release guitar (many student models, most Marlens, most Simmons), see this diagram below. It is similar to the early Marlen guitars, but later on, you could tune the open (middle) note in the window in the endplate, because they threaded the lowering rod where I highlighted it. The screw under the guitar was still there, but you didn't have to use it (this let you lower two notes on the same lever).


Does this all make sense?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
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Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 2:11 am     pullrod adjustment
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My guitar is very similar to this, Jim Park stated his opinion that this is a pull release unit. (see my initial entry as "new guy in forum" dated 23 July. The tuning finger is not scissor but a solid piece where the pullrod attaches like your drawing and the tuning screws affects the adjustment on the top. I am trying to establish a baseline adjustment on the pullrod. (my nightmare is when I finally install strings and push the pedal, a massive snapping of the strings) there are gears on pedal 5,6,and 8 which allows string 5, 6, and nine to release and let the string tension take them to the lower notes. Again, I am just trying to get the baseline adjustment on the pullrods. Thanks for your interest.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 2:32 am    
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I looked at the pics. The method by which strings that both raise and lower get held in the middle are not clear to me.
If a string only raises, it should rest against the screw. If it only lowers, it should rest against the front edge of the hole.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects


Last edited by Lane Gray on 26 Jul 2017 3:09 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 2:45 am    
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Link to Danny's thread with pics - I cannot figure it out by the pics, I would need "hands-on" to see what is actually occurring when a pedal is pushed.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2650130&highlight=#2650130
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Bill Moore


From:
Manchester, Michigan
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 4:24 am    
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You have to turn the guitar correctly.

First tune the open strings to the right pitch.

Then tune the strings that raise ,at the keyhead, with the pedal or lever actuated. Now the open pitch will need to be tuned, adjust the screw behind the changer finger to get the right open note.

If a string only lowers, tune the open note at the keyhead, then use the screw behind the changer finger to tune the lowered note.

Strings that both raise and lower will have a spring that puts tension on it so it will rest in a central position. Start with the right open pitch, tune the raise with the pedal actuated, at the keyhead, the open note is usually tuned by adjusting the nut on the rod that goes to the changer. The lowered note is tuned by using the screw behind the changer.

If you can't get it in tune, you will have to adjust the positions of the rods/bellcranks so there is the right amount of travel to achieve both the raises and the lowers. If it's way out of adjustment, this may take a while to figure out. The best thing to do would be to fond someone nearby that can help you. Good luck.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 4:41 am    
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BTW, I don't suggest putting the strings on it. If you're worried about breakage, tune it to C9th and A6th, so that tension will still be at play and opposing the tension from the return springs, but they won't be at full tension.
I don't know where in North Carolina you are, and I don't remember where Clyde Mattocks is, but he's familiar with pull-release and might be able to help get you going.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
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Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 6:25 am     Drawing
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I made a drawing in word but upload will not allow it, I will convert it and send it soon, BTW I'm a Wichita boy relocated after military to NC
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Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 6:39 am     drawing agin
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Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 7:14 am    
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I think I understand Bill Moores solution. Assuming "keyhead" is the tuning keys.
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Bill Moore


From:
Manchester, Michigan
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 5:07 pm    
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Keyhead=tuning keys. Since you said you have had strings break when you used the pedal, I probably should have suggested that you don't worry about the open tuned note at first, instead, make the open note more flat then it should be, step on the pedal, tune the raised note with the tuning key. Release the pedal, check the open note, it will probably be flat, tune it by adjusting the nut on the pull rod, at the changer. The lowered note then can be adjusted with the screw behind the changer, with the lever actuated.
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Danny Frisbie

 

From:
North Carolina, USA
Post  Posted 26 Jul 2017 11:49 pm    
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I have never had a string break, I said it was my biggest nightmare. I have never played a steel, this is the first time I've ever seen one up close and personal. I am totally flying blind in this. that's why my terminologies may be wrong. I have just finished repairing it and getting the rust off. so before I put strings on, I was looking for a good starting point for the pullrods so I don't have a string break. As you can see with my drawing, this is probably a very old unit. thanks for you help!
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