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Topic: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks? |
Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 6:16 am |
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| Rich Peterson wrote: |
If you need to "cut through a noisy stage environment," maybe everyone on stage is trying to do the same thing, resulting in an escalating arms race. Getting a good sound mix requires compromise, not competition. On six-string, I alter my tone in several ways to go from lead to support. And get complements from singers for staying out of their way.
Todd already plays finger picking acoustic, and plans on switching on the fly to PSG and back. Do you really think it's reasonable to demand that he learn to use picks on acoustic?
Get "properly bent" picks from Jeff Newman's site? Give that advice to Sarah Jory. Looks like her picks are straight.
https://youtu.be/TcP6uVb5lg0
This is a good, lively discussion. Exactly what a Forum should be. Just don't get caught up in "winning the argument." Keep an open mind. You might learn something. |
Excellent response. Thank you.
I play music for personal enjoyment.
Just for me and to keep my old brain active.
My way is right "for me". Maybe it's because I play a Weiss quite a bit. I have no clue.
I also do really like the somewhat softer tone my fingernails give me.
I don't care if someone else uses picks or not or even attacks the strings with a table spoon.
I certainly wouldn't castigate them for not doing it "my way".
Then again I'm just an old guy that found a hobby that fills his time with pleasure.
Playing in public has been declared illegal here for me in 3 counties.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 6:42 am
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| Rich Peterson wrote: |
If you need to "cut through a noisy stage environment," maybe everyone on stage is trying to do the same thing, resulting in an escalating arms race. Getting a good sound mix requires compromise, not competition. On six-string, I alter my tone in several ways to go from lead to support. And get complements from singers for staying out of their way.
Todd already plays finger picking acoustic, and plans on switching on the fly to PSG and back. Do you really think it's reasonable to demand that he learn to use picks on acoustic?
Get "properly bent" picks from Jeff Newman's site? Give that advice to Sarah Jory. Looks like her picks are straight.
https://youtu.be/TcP6uVb5lg0
This is a good, lively discussion. Exactly what a Forum should be. Just don't get caught up in "winning the argument." Keep an open mind. You might learn something. |
Cutting through the mix doesn't mean a battle with escalating volume, although that sometimes happens. To me it means being present in the sonic space that the steel guitar resides. Every no-picks player I have seen LIVE is real bassy and muddy sounding. They seem to fall into that sonic space of the lower guitar strings and some even getting lost in the bass guitar space. It's just very unpleasant for me to hear.
That being said, if you want to play with no picks and get playing opportunities that you want (even if it's just in your house), and the people like it, then do it. There's nothing wrong there.
As far as the Newman picks being pre-bent, it's pretty much the band that is pre-bent. The tounge might come slightly bent, but I have never noticed. Any pick's toungue can be bent anyway you want, be it straight out or bent around your finger tip.
And no, it's not reasonable to expect him to learn to use finger picks on acoustic guitar (another sound I don't like), or even expect him to use them on pedal steel. But, I have seen players switch from guitar to steel, put their picks on very quickly. I think it would be rare that there wouldn't be a 5 to 10 second spot to put on the pick and even less time to take them off. Takes practice I'm sure.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 6:51 am
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| I never played steel guitar without picks but I do remember starting the Hawaiian guitar with plastic finger picks. They sounded fine for that kind of music but it wasn't long before I went to the metal finger picks. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 7:13 am
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"Always wear your picks while practicing" - Pedal Steel Guitar, Winnie Winston and Bill Keith.
That book is still a PSG instructional standard, and that statement is about as dogmatic as dogma gets. It may be based on an assumption, however, that the student has no previous finger picking experience, no nails, and no callouses.
As with playing bluegrass on 5 string banjo, it is difficult to achieve the trad country sound on steel without fingerpicks. If that was my job, I'd wear picks all the time. But it is not my job. I will be playing other types of music and other instruments and I will not be in the hit record making business (thankfully).
I can now play my steel with or without picks, and have found that going pickless for a while has actually improved my technique when I switch back to wearing picks. And I do enjoy both tones. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 8:25 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| To me it means being present in the sonic space that the steel guitar resides. |
That's what I meant. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2017 3:37 pm Picks
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| You can bend those picks around your finger tips or as Sarah Jory and many others keep them straight. Either way works. Depends on which way you start out. The traditional tone is in the picks and who is wearing them. I could not imagine playing Highway 40 Blues in E9th or better yet, Nightlife on C6 without picks!!!! To stay competitive, band wise everything counts. Never without a job playing Steel. Playing County Fairs and Festivals now. I played five nights a week plus my day job. TONE DOES MATTER. |
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Terry Elms
From:
Colorado Springs, CO
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Posted 13 Jul 2017 8:37 pm
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| Two words..Bobbe Seymour. He played with a thumb pick. Sometimes we focus on the small things instead of learning the instrument. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 6:39 am
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| Yes, Bobbe played with a thumb pick plus two finger picks. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 8:49 am
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BobbeSeymour
Member
From: Hendersonville TN USA
posted 26 April 2004 07:50 PM
Either way, You either play or------>
You can be an accomplished musician with or without picks, the choice is yours. In the head is where it really is, what's stuck on your fingers or not stuck on your fingers isn't the thing that will decide your career. Many great players have proven this and will continue to prove this. Ask Buddy Emmons, Randy Beavers, or even a slug like myself to play with no picks, you won't hear much of a difference, if any at all. I refuse to be a slave to these things. I'll use them if the mood is right, but I have done many sessions , my own and for others, with out picks. Tone? Look out, you can have great tone either way.(Chet didn't use them). With practice and the correct equipment any tone can be yours, and speed also. These are facts friends!
I have heard guys fight and argue about the brand of finger picks,the weight size and thickness,I try to hide my laughter, what difference does the brand of finger picks make if they aren't even necessary in the first place? Hey, play the guitar,Don't knock it if you haven't given it a good tryout.
This editorial is from the desk of :
Bobbe "sorefingers" Seymour |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 8:56 am
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| His YouTube videos all show him using finger picks. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 9:41 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| His YouTube videos all show him using finger picks. |
That's cuz his producer said "Dude! What's this no picks crap?"
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 9:50 am
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You must be joking!  |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 10:27 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| You must be joking! |
No, I'm Fred.
Jo King couldn't make it today. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 1:08 pm
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Don't care what Bobby Sizemore said, play with picks, you will sound better!!!
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 3:39 pm
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Don't care what Bobby Sizemore said, play with picks, you will sound better!!! |
I've been told that I should play without an amp; that I would sound better.
The point of that wise crack is...... "What does "better" mean? Commercial? I don't play six-string in a "commercial" (just like the record) way. BUT.... I am told that people know that Rich Peterson is playing before they see me on stage. Why should I have to sound "commercial" (just like everyone else) on steel?
You are correct in assuming that my acrylic reinforced nails don't sound like steel picks. Guess what's missing.
The accidental click of a steel pick hitting an adjacent string. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 3:58 pm Re: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
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| Todd Mathis wrote: |
| I'm a finger picking acoustic guitar player trying to play the steel. The picks seem so unnatural. I was just wondering if any of you use your fingers instead of picks? |
Todd,
I was in your boat when I started, last year. I was 100% SURE I'd never get the hang of picks, and even did some gigs without them.
But, I persevered....
To the point where, yesterday, I tried to show a friend something real quick without my picks........and it felt REALLY weird and unnatural.
What helped me was starting with Dunlop .013 steel picks. The thinner gauge made the transition easier.
Good luck! |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 4:49 pm
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And there you have it. The preceding two posts are diametrically opposed. I would venture a guess they were made by pretty good players.
Here's my conclusion.
You want finger picks to feel less weird and unnatural? Get used to them and play your steel with them.
You want barefingerstyle to feel less weird and unnatural? Play your steel that way, you'll get used to it.
I do believe this topic has now been officially picked to death.... |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2017 7:24 am
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The heading for this post is: "Does anyone play with fingers instead of picks?"
Don't we all play with fingers?
Some with picks and some without. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 15 Jul 2017 8:04 am
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Here is a previous discussion about Bobbe not using fingerpicks. Interesting comments from Bobbe.
Click Here
On some of his lessons on You Tube you can see his long fingernails. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2017 9:13 pm Re: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
What helped me was starting with Dunlop .013 steel picks. The thinner gauge made the transition easier.
Good luck! |
Plus one on the Dunlop .013s. My current faves. |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2017 9:30 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Cutting through the mix doesn't mean a battle with escalating volume, although that sometimes happens. To me it means being present in the sonic space that the steel guitar resides. Every no-picks player I have seen LIVE is real bassy and muddy sounding. They seem to fall into that sonic space of the lower guitar strings and some even getting lost in the bass guitar space. It's just very unpleasant for me to hear.
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This is a critical and great point. Most live music venues will have a lot of mud buildup naturally - the last thing you want to do is go poking sticks at that dragon.
IMO, you have to listen to what's coming back from the rest of the room. I've played a lot of bass, and you have to fight that all the time - especially when the boss says "turn up." |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2017 5:50 am
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Dear Todd - In your original post you say you are a finger picking acoustic guitar player, new to steel. Definitely not the first person to have problems trying to use picks. Since its going to be a long journey anyhow, might as well try without picks for a while, especially if picks are a barrier to playing at all. But we also have to figure that since 99.8567% of steel player DO play with picks, probably you can also learn to use picks like everybody else, but in your own time and place.
My own suggestion: learn to use picks eventually, but don't let them become a reason for not learning steel. You could put them on your fingers for 10 or 15 minutes while doing something totally unrelated to steel practice, just to let the nerves get used to the feeling; Or a similar suggestion is try playing some acoustic guitar with picks on for a couple of weeks.
How much playing with a bar have you done? If its the first time playing with a bar, that's a challenge, and then moving your feet, and hitting the right strings, (cause now there's 10!) that's awkward, and then learn to use picks too? So a little bit of divide and conquer might be in order here, and let the picks thing go until later. How is all the REST of it going for you? Everything else besides the picks?
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Godfrey Arthur
From:
3rd Rock
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 11:29 am Re: Anyone play with fingers instead of picks?
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| Todd Mathis wrote: |
| The picks seem so unnatural. |
Right. So, here's the thing: there is nothing natural about playing pedal steel guitar. Nothing. Fercryinoutloud, you're using both hands, both feet, and both knees. (We'd use both kidneys too if someone could figure out how to make it work.) So the fact that, at the beginning, some aspect of playing steel "seems unnatural" is, well... kind of irrelevant.
BUT! You should have a pro check out how you're wearing your picks and how they are bent. I've had many new students either wear them incorrectly, or not bend them appropriately and, once corrected, they felt much better about using them. So be sure to check that out with an experienced pro, then give it a good 6 months before deciding whether to use them or not. As others have mentioned, you can only get that 'snappy' tone from picks. But, hey, if you don't seek to get that sound (or plan to play with or work for people who will expect you to be able to execute that sound), then you don't have to wear them. Just don't decide too early. |
That's funny and true.
I'm having to get with the program and playing with picks although you feel like a cat with tape on its paws, it has to be practiced until it becomes second nature.
I'm finding that figuring out the metal picks and how to bend them to work and feel comfortable is part of the process. Still have a long ways to go.
Like anything it takes doing.
_________________
ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 7:22 pm
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Play with picks, you will sound better.
Wait, I think I said that😄 
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 4:08 am
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I learned to play PSG using metal picks. Fell away from the instrument, concentrating on six-string, hybrid picking, either flatpick or thumbpick plus fingers. Big breakthrough when I started getting nylon tips and acrylic on my picking hand. My nails extend a bit more than 1/8" past the finger tip. Bending the metal picks to fit over the nails messes up my sense of where the string is.
The difference in tone between metal and acylic isn't enough to make me devote months to adapting back to picks.
One thing I noticed. The ergonomics using nails is different, so you may want to tilt the PSG forward or backward a bit |
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