Mini lathe / milling machine suggestions for steel parts

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I know there are steel guitar players that are are machinists that lurk on the forum. Many years ago I had a Jet lathe with plastic gears that was noisy and left a log to be desired.

Considering getting a mini lathe and mini milling machine not a shop smith combo deal. I have been checking out various models and getting the good, bad and ugly reviews. Most of these machines like the import Harbor Freight and Grisly, are also made under different names and painted different colors. Also, a lot of cleaning and setup required with little or no customer service available if you have a problem

Anyway, jump in with any suggestions?

Lenny

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Enco, Grizzly, and Harbor Freight all are imports and have affordable machines but getting a mini-setup will result in numerous headaches IMHO as most of them are too small to do what we need. I have an Enco table mill and a Grizzly lathe and am satisfied. With the table mill it is imperative that you get a good vise (Kurt or similar) as that is really important and I installed a digital read out(DRO) by Shooting Star on the milling machine and Harbor Freight dial indicators on the lathe.

Daniel McKee · From: Corinth Mississippi

Most of the small machines are not terrible if you recognize their limits. Most do well for aluminum and other soft material. Most people recomend getting a mill that has belts instead of those little plastic gears but as long as the material is fairly soft you should be fine. Grizzly has some good deals on small milling machines and Harbor freight has I think 3 options, the smallest which runs around 600-700.00 dollars and a larger round column option (Have heard good things on it) and they also have a 9 speed vertical mill which is less than 2 thousand but I havent heard any reviews. As Jim said most of these machines are not meant to work on large material so I'd really consider what I might be working on before making a purchase.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I only plan on working with aluminum, brass, Delrin and fairly soft materials. The bed on the lathe has to be true and substantial to get a tight tolerance.

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

The best stuff is used and found on your local Craigslist. Older American, Euro, Japanese or even early Taiwan machinery is much better than most of the new low priced Chinese made stuff. You might be surprised how cheaply some good stuff can be had. It helps a lot to make pals with a machinist to help you shop.

The smaller of the two mills on this site look like something worth investigating.

http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Weiss_Mills.htm. The same outfit sells some decent looking small lathes too.

Good luck and have fun!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Weiss_Mills.htm

Drop the last . for the proper url link.

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

thanks for catching that Jerry

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Don't discount the usability of the mini-mills. As Daniel McKee mentioned, The Grizzly and a few of the knock-off brands can be had in the 600-700 range. I bought a Harbor Freight mini-mill a couple of years ago, used several coupons and the end price was something like $450.00.

The plastic gear box doesn't last long. I immediately upgraded to the belt drive, a simple upgrade, I think it cost something like $40 on ebay. Bought a bunch of "cheap" bits, and some good ones too...

I work mostly with soft materials too, but is will machine steel just fine, just use common sense & don't force things.

I've had three years of metal/fab experience, so I knew a little about what was needed & what I could "get away" with. Obviously, this is not a high end Bridgeport/similar, but I don't need overkill for my purposes, either. I would love to have a high end mill, but funds are a consideration, especially for "hobby" work.

I've added 4 knees to my Sierra with this thing, fabbed up some steel gun parts, radio control model part, various other odds/ends.

Little Machine Shop has an excellent line-up of these little guys -

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1387807683

If I were buying now, I would purchase from them, as they have upgraded units with digital read-outs, and I see they have done away with the gear drive right from the get-go, which eliminates the need for you to purchase the belt kit & do the change yourself.

Also, watch some youtube mini mill vids. They will give you a good understanding of what they are capable of, you can get good reviews there.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mini+mill
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Sierra Crown D-10

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

If a lack of shop space is the primary issue then the little desktop machines make sense. The key to good results on any machine, including the mini mills, etc., is simply not pushing it beyond its capabilities. That means patience and shallow cuts on a small, less rigid machine.

That said, I'm going to chime in the side of better quality heavier duty used equipment.

I have a '90s Taiwanese knee mill and an old but gently used 12" Atlas lathe that I acquired (separately) for a total of $1500 off Craigslist. Pretty similar to buying new mini stuff but way more capable. Both came with tons of extra stuff, tooling, cutters, collets, etc. and both are still very solid and functional. The difference in the quality of the results and increased speed you'll get from a larger machine with more mass and rigidity vs. a little bench top machine is substantial.

I built a DRO setup for the mill using the inexpensive magnetic sensors from Grizzly and a home built controller that interfaces with an Android tablet via bluetooth. The Android app is called TouchDRO, it's really slick. It's free, and the developer has posted all the instruction and parts list for building the controller as well as all the interface software for a variety of supported scale types. I bought a cheap 7" RCA tablet for $39 to serve as the readout, voila. I haven't added the DRO to the lathe yet, but it's on the to-do list. Check out Touch DRO here: http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html

Fwiw, I also have a Harbor Freight mini mill that I got off Craigslist for $250. I use it primarily as a drill press. It is great for repetitive operations with smaller parts. It uses the standard Bridgeport-style R8 collets like the knee mill so tooling is mostly interchangeable if needed, but for milling work it flexes way too much when compared to the big knee mill so I don't use it for that.

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Ian is spot on with his comments.

I was concerned about the flexing issue, I saw that mentioned on forums & youtube. And it is true, a larger mill/older/used that might weigh 1000 lb. or more is going to be much more stable.

However, there are several mods that you can do to the min-mill, if rigidity are an issue for you. In my experience, I have not had the flexing issues to be a problem, even when milling steel parts.

I talked to a couple of guys that had shop mills for sale on craigslist, and when I went to look at them, a lot of the tooling was damaged, dull, broken, just plain worn out from industrial shop use over the years, so, keep an eye out for that.

Also, a shop mill that has been used a lot can have wear/slop in the head (I forget now what the term is), but it can cause the bits to wander because the bearings, etc. are worn from years of repetitive use. Just a few things to look out for. If you are lucky enough to find a gently used mill/lathe on craigslist/other, by all means go for it.

That said, the mini mill is a nice, and quite usable alternative. Again, watch the youtube vids., and read up on several forums - you will find that the flexing is not a huge issue, unless you are machining stainless, hard steel, chrome, or aerospace parts for NASA, lol.
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Sierra Crown D-10

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Thanks for info and insight. There is a fellow on YouTube that does reviews in mini lathes. His website is www.mini-lathe.com. www.littlemachineshop.com has several models worth looking at.

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I'm happy with my Grizzly stuff. Digital readouts are a bit expensive and time consuming to install and calibrate, but the effort is well worth it. It's the next best thing to numerical control. The middle picture is before I installed the DRO, I had just set the mill in my shop. Tooling is a big expense, I've had small lathes for about 40 years, Atlas, and Logan, so I accumulated a lot of tooling. I had a bench mill on a stand for about 15 years, before I bought the Grizzly, so I also had a lot of mill tooling.

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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, as well as some older MSAs, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Recently added a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored blue Rose, named the "Blue Bird" to the herd. Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic again that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also added a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

your shop is way too clean Darvin! Or mine is way too... never mind.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Darvin & Ian,

Do you mill "wet or dry?" There are mixed ideas on this on different forums. In school, we milled using lubricant for cooling, but I know a lot of guys who mill, especially soft materials without it.

I've done both ways, and actually prefer dry milling anymore. Makes a lot less mess, and I don't seem to go through bits any faster. And then there is "forced air cooling", where you have a steady stream of air washing over the bit/material. I want to set mine up this way, just one of those things I've not yet gotten around to doing...
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Sierra Crown D-10

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Tim, I have a home-built mist system that uses mostly compressed air but also provides a fine spray of KoolMist when desired. Your tooling will definitely last longer and cut cleaner if you keep it cool by some means, but it also really helps in keeping the work clean as you cut. Less heat is better for the cut, and prevents chips from welding back onto the work or the cutter. Even if just using a hand spray bottle or compressed air alone it's better than nothing.

Most of the stuff I make is fairly small and from aluminum, and I mostly just use the air. It's virtually always on when the machine is on, but I always have a spray bottle of KoolMist handy for the occasional blast. For bigger cuts/cutters, or anytime cutting steel or stainless (not very often) I use the mist coolant fairly freely, but it doesn't take that much. The air does a lot of work on its own.

Mine has a small pressure regulator in front of a solenoid switched air valve that turns on with the machine. It pressurizes the coolant tank, which feeds into a mixing block then into a Loc-Line nozzle. System pressure is very low, ~10 lbs. The amount of mist is controlled by a needle valve up near the head. There are lots of DIY ideas around the web, parts are cheap, assuming you already have a decent air compressor. Mine evolved over a couple of years but I got most of the stuff on Amazon or eBay. Probably about $60-$70 total.

Russell Adkins · From: Louisiana, USA

My shop has a index mill a grizzly mill lath combo , drill press from HF and various other tools sanders planer s etc etc can do wood working plus machining even welding . Larger milling machines will take up more room but will do more than the smaller units , a rotary table to use on your mill is an excellent choice also , i also have a foundry setup i can do castings ( a big time saver if you make alot of look a like parts ., not all parts on a pedal steel need to be machines.

manny escobar · From: portsmouth,r.i. usa

Hi Lenny, Only a maniac would do what I did. My 2 homemade steels are mostly parts where I used MSA mechanisms as blue prints. If you are building a pedal steel we should put our heads together.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Pretty much decided on this mini lathe. Nice features and should fit my needs. Thanks to all that chimed in. Littlemachineshop.com is a great resource. Here is the lathe I am going to order.

David Weisenthal · From: Arizona, USA

Len, For small parts, the Sherline and Taig lathes are hard to beat. They can hold very tight tolerances. Look at the miniature working radial airplane engines machinists make on them! They are also american made and inexpensive. Clockmakers love them. The small Austrian-made Prazi lathes you can find used can hold very tight tolerances, but aint cheap.
we have a small Prazi at work.

Also as far as desktop milling machines, if you want to work in smaller stuff I can't recommend the Taig highly enough. It is completely designed and made in Arizona. I have the CNC version at work, and I bought one for my home shop. We make miniature molds with them, and R&D parts. About $3000 for the Mill, head electronics, and collets.

http://www.taigtools.com/
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Derby SD10, Peavey Session 400

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Thank you David. The Taig lathe is an impressive machine but it is a micro lathe. The mini lathe has more swing, longer bed and more power. Not as accurate as the Taig but will be good enough for my needs.

Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

If you are serious about it, don't waste your money on "tabletop" machines. Go buy a 30-40 year old pro machine. If it doesn't weigh 1500 pounds or more it won't be accurate. Look at stuff like Herco. You can buy used equipment cheap that will last you and your children's lifetime for the same price as new lightweight stuff.
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Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

Justin, a lot of those old machines are worn out and hard to hold any accuracy with. I started with an old Atlas about 40 years ago, then went to an Logan about 20 years ago, but neither would come close to the Grizzly I now have. They were smaller lathes, but still not that good. I sold the Logan for about 75% of what I paid for the Grizzly.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, as well as some older MSAs, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Recently added a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored blue Rose, named the "Blue Bird" to the herd. Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic again that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also added a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

My new Lathe. Pretty good for the price with a variable speed brushless motor and digital readouts on the compound cross slide. Had to do a complete disassembly of the unit to clean all the packing grease. After making many adjustments I finally have it dialed in.

Good start for my needs. Also, building a different bench to the height of my comfort level.

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Yahoo, congrats on the new lathe!

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