Day Copedant?

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Never intended for this to be controversial. I know Bud Carter (RIP) stated in his online FAQ that the Day setup was more prone to cabinet drop. Makes sense, but some guitars are more prone to cabinet drop than others as well.

I'm thinking it's more about how one's ankles move... I've played an Emmons set up for years, but it's never too late to change...

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

Cabinet drop would have a lot to do with how much foot pressure is exerted when the pedal hits the stop. No two guitars require the exact same pressure to activate changes, and no two players will exert the exact same foot pressure. Physics would say that the Day setup would increase cabinet drop, because the loading is farther from the supports, but with all of the other factors I would say it would be immeasurable. Like everything else on a pedal steel, the player has to compensate by ear to play in tune unless you are playing open strings.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that cabinet drop is caused more by increased string tension than by the downward pressure of pedals on the cabinet. But in either case, the difference between ABC and CBA would be small.
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Ga McDonnell · From: N GA, USA

If CBA has more cabinet drop than ABC it boggles the mind to imagine the fearful possibilities that exist with the pedals operating C6. Theyâ€™re stuck right in the middle of the guitar. Some of these pedals have three pulls and heavier strings to deal with.

I just hope nobody ever thoughtlessly pushes down pedal 5 and 8 at the same time. If you end up with a guitar that's permanently shaped like a hammock there's nobody to blame but yourself.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

My first guitar was a ShoBud Maverick, 3/0 ABC. I quickly realized I needed at least one KL to get some of the basic sounds I was hearing in recordings, so I added a RK (R?) In any case, I played that guitar for three or four months before realizing its stark limitations and bought a BMI 3/4 with a basic Emmons setup.

Fast forward a couple months. I picked up the Winston/Keith book. (A MUST HAVE book.) At the end there are copedants of several of the top pros at the time and I noticed that most of my favorite players (Buddy notably excepted) played some variation of Day setup. Since the BMI was very easy to change copedants, I quickly converted to Day with E lower LKL and E raise LKR. (Don't remember how I had the RKs -- I can deal with them pretty much any way they're set up.) Long story short, the new setup felt and sounded good right out of the gate and I've never looked back.

I can get used to an Emmons setup guitar after about a half-hour of playing, but it never feels as smooth and intuitive to me as the Day setup with the E changes on the left.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Sorry if I seem to be beating a dead horse here!

I think I'm going to try the CBA pedal set up on one of my guitars. But I will need to change some of my levers.

I'm thinking the Raise E's should go on LKR.

The question is where to put the Lower E's, on the RKL, where they are now, or move them to LKL, ala John Hughey.

For the current Day players here, how do you set up your knee levers?

Thanks again for your insight and patience!

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Taking everyone's suggestions into account, I'm going to try the Lower E's on the RKL, and the Raise E's on the LKR. Basically the same as Johan Jensen's copedant, but with the CBA Day pedal order, and the two RK Levers reversed:

https://b0b.com/tunings/jj.html

I think the CBA pedal order will be much easier on my ankle, and with the only real difference being the LEFT Leg levers moving in the opposite direction, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust.

Thank you all for your guidance and patience! Cool

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

If it's easy enough to do, I'd try different approaches. There are plenty of great players that have done it many different ways. But for my money, I can't think of a good reason to not have your E changes on the LK on a CBA setup, unless you're regularly using pedals D,E,F... in the same song, in which case the LKR gets in the way. Otherwise, there are so many thousands of licks that lend themselves so easily and naturally to the B/C pedal rock with the LKL lower/LKR raise combo its hard to see a downside.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Drew Pierce · From: Arkansas, USA

Pressing Pedal A while lowering the E makes a cool sound, but depending on one's style and musical choices, the A pedal and F lever will be a much more frequently used combination as it makes a third major chord position option to go along with open and AB together.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals.

Charley Bond · From: Inola, OK, USA

What Jeff Mead said... I like Tommy White's setup. Don't know how long Tommy had his guitar setup like that, I've had that copedent since 1978. Reese put that on my LDG, he made for me.
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Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Jay Friedrich · From: Dallas, TX

Jim Reynolds · From: Franklin, Pa 16323

Jeff, played the Day pedal, but he had his E's on his right knee. He lowered his E's RKR, raised them on RKL. Watch his lessons, and he does explain this in several videos. He also says, that it doesn't matter, one is no better then the others, it's just that you know where they are on your guitar. I do like the raise on separate knees. As mentioned it give a smooth transition between the raise and lower. I use this a lot, and it works nice for me. There is no middle area. Your going into one and out of the other, very smoothly. Just my two cents.
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Samuel Phillippe · From: Douglas Michigan, USA

Very intresting read on these posts....now you guys have me thinking of trying the Day shift (not a pun) to see if I can do better with my pedal play.....

At present it is a hit or miss and have thought about changing after watching Tony Brown, but often wondered if I had to change the knee levers also....

You are all so helpful wuth your comments and suggestions....

Thanks for sparking my interest to try something different.

Sam

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Samuel Phillippe · From: Douglas Michigan, USA

Thanks Richard, or do I call you Rusty Strings, that eliminates my next question.

Am gonna try it when I get a minute to change things around.... Yup minute, that's a joke

Sam

PS like your knick name.

Johnny Cox · Posted 18 Nov 2022 7:10 pm

I play Day because if feels more natural to my foot. Other players that play/played Day.
John Hughey
Hal Rugg
Weldon Myrick
Curly Chalker
Sonny Burnette
Stu Basore
Ron Elliot
Joan Cox
Jeff Newman
Tommy White
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"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.

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