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Topic: Parallel Strings for In-Tune Slants? |
David Mason
From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 20 May 2017 2:43 pm
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There is a body of "received wisdom" claiming that having strings that are perfectly parallel from nut to bridge will physically, mathematically make the slants be in-tune, or... more in-tune? The guys who I know of making this claim were Tom Morrell and Billy Robinson, who certainly carry a bit of minor-diety status in my estimation. But, dang I look at a 22.5" or 24" long string, and what kind of offset from parallel built into "most" steels, and that offset spread out over 10 strings; whew, not much there. If you take a string on the nut as the center of a 360 degree circle, a string straightened relative to the next string over has to be moving some fraction of a SINGLE degree, right? Visualizing 90 degrees, then 45, then 15 degrees, then to 5 and 1.
I have both the 10-string nut & bridge pieces for an MSA SuperSlide and the 12-string pieces. Using the 10-and-10 nut and bridge the strings do spread about 3/8" over 10 strings; but using the 10-string nut and the middle 10 holes of the 12-string bridge, the spread is a small 1/8". THEN divided by 9 for the single-string "error."(?) Yes, my slants don't always sound quite... immaculate, let us say; but we can also say there are several trees in the forest, and I want to spend my time barking up the correct tree(s), the ones that matter.
Like, a rigorous application of our friend "Equal Tempered Tuning" will result in a full 14 cents difference from a harmonic-based just-intonation; the "thirds" are where the bugbear usually pops up, but that divergence can be (and is) shoved around somewhat with various offset systems. As I can hear 4 or 5 cents off when my ear is trained up, does one-NINTH of one-EIGHTH of an inch spread of the strings even clock a single cent, here? Has anybody ever figured it up, or know how to?
Cents-per-degree of offset, A=440 seems most applicable. I know I don't have the math for it... ARF? arf... |
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Former Member
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Posted 20 May 2017 3:07 pm
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You have studied it deeper than me..
I recently had Todd Clinesmith build me a bridge and nut at equal spacing, but very wide.
7/16ths. -- so not a great example.. It's seemed good for 2 note slants, but made it harder for 3 note, where 2 strings are adjacent and the third is one or two strings away.
I'm not a very good player either, went back to the original B/N.
I got to practice more and mess with stuff less! |
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C. E. Jackson
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Posted 20 May 2017 5:34 pm
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I certainly don't always make perfect 2 and 3 string slants. I only have one 10 string steel that has a 22.5" scale with a constant spacing of strings from nut to bridge (3.5" overall the 10 strings). I find it easier to make 2 and 3 string slants that sound decent on this steel, than on a steel with a smaller overall string width at the nut than at the bridge. _________________ My Vintage Steel Guitars
My YouTube Steel Guitar Playlists
My YouTube Steel Guitar Songs
A6 tuning for steels |
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David Matzenik
From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 20 May 2017 8:00 pm
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With only the experience of a third rate steel guitarist, and only on 6 and 8 strings, my physical requirements are the orientation of my arm, wrist, and hand as I move along the fretboard. I cannot simply put the bar in a position, convenient or otherwise, and guarantee perfect harmony. I have to use my “ear,†in conjunction with this changing articulation of the all the joints of the limb. This is not the same as straight bar playing where it is reasonably predictable. Under those restrictions, I don't sense an important preference for parallel or tapered fretboards.
That being said, parallel strings seem the logical choice. Why would we complicate the issue with a tapered neck? I think tapered necks on steel guitars are an inheritance from the early use of standard Spanish guitars. This also includes the symmetry exhibited in the early electric steel guitars, which proved undesirable.
However, as I have said before, when I built my 8 string guitar I gave the fret board a taper. It was not from the bridge to the nut. It was from the nut to the bridge, that is, where the spacing was convenient in first position for the bar, I enlarged the spaces at the bridge for easier picking. _________________ Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Stefan Robertson
From: Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 21 May 2017 1:01 am Re: Parallel Strings for In-Tune Slants?
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David Mason wrote: |
There is a body of "received wisdom" claiming that having strings that are perfectly parallel from nut to bridge will physically, mathematically make the slants be in-tune, or... more in-tune? The guys who I know of making this claim were Tom Morrell and Billy Robinson, who certainly carry a bit of minor-diety status in my estimation. But, dang I look at a 22.5" or 24" long string, and what kind of offset from parallel built into "most" steels, and that offset spread out over 10 strings; whew, not much there. If you take a string on the nut as the center of a 360 degree circle, a string straightened relative to the next string over has to be moving some fraction of a SINGLE degree, right? Visualizing 90 degrees, then 45, then 15 degrees, then to 5 and 1.
I have both the 10-string nut & bridge pieces for an MSA SuperSlide and the 12-string pieces. Using the 10-and-10 nut and bridge the strings do spread about 3/8" over 10 strings; but using the 10-string nut and the middle 10 holes of the 12-string bridge, the spread is a small 1/8". THEN divided by 9 for the single-string "error."(?) Yes, my slants don't always sound quite... immaculate, let us say; but we can also say there are several trees in the forest, and I want to spend my time barking up the correct tree(s), the ones that matter.
Like, a rigorous application of our friend "Equal Tempered Tuning" will result in a full 14 cents difference from a harmonic-based just-intonation; the "thirds" are where the bugbear usually pops up, but that divergence can be (and is) shoved around somewhat with various offset systems. As I can hear 4 or 5 cents off when my ear is trained up, does one-NINTH of one-EIGHTH of an inch spread of the strings even clock a single cent, here? Has anybody ever figured it up, or know how to?
Cents-per-degree of offset, A=440 seems most applicable. I know I don't have the math for it... ARF? arf... |
OK so I've been down this train for sometime. My findings were 3 note and four note slants and split slants are:
easier with tighter string spacing
Easier on a 22.5" scale length
Bridge and nut string almost perfectly equal in spacing.
I don't ever wish to going back to massive differences between bridge and nut and I am not interested in huge string spacing either. Then again my fingers are long and slender so even if I were 80 which I'm not it wouldn't really be a problem for me as some players have.
Everyone is different. _________________ Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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