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Author Topic:  Discovering E13
Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 29 Dec 2016 2:01 am     Reply with quote

So being tired of the lack of info shared on E13 I will be posting discoveries on my blog. Enjoy.

https://ilapsteel.wordpress.com/discovering-e13-lap-steel-guitar-bilals-bebop/
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 29 Dec 2016 4:06 am     Reply with quote

1st update: Open strings posted.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 29 Dec 2016 10:15 am     Reply with quote

2nd instalment coming soon. Stay tuned. For my E13 family hang in there its truly awesome.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Tom Cooper


From:
Orlando, Fl
Post Posted 29 Dec 2016 3:57 pm     Reply with quote

Very cool. Looking forward to this. I was using A6 as my single neck go to, but now taking second look at E13. Like the bright snappy sound. Tone knob sofens it up like you said. I really want a 10 string. Down the road for sure. Thanks for the blog. Enjoying it.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 12:49 am     Reply with quote

Tom Cooper wrote:
Very cool. Looking forward to this. I was using A6 as my single neck go to, but now taking second look at E13. Like the bright snappy sound. Tone knob sofens it up like you said. I really want a 10 string. Down the road for sure. Thanks for the blog. Enjoying it.


Much appreciated.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 6:31 am     Reply with quote

2nd instalment added.

So why is it called E13/b9?

Enjoy!!!
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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David M Brown


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 11:21 am     Reply with quote

Stefan Robertson wrote:
2nd instalment added.

So why is it called E13/b9?

Enjoy!!!


Is that low F below all the other notes in the tuning or is it reentrant and higher pitched?

The reason I ask, is that a b9 is not a tone to to used as a bass note. It needs to be an upper interval to function in its proper harmonic context.

I know a number of steel players have come up with tuning with a reentrant high pitch "low" string, so I wan wondering about this one.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 11:46 am     Reply with quote

No I didn't want it is a re-entrant specifically because of its chord function in a lower register/octave.

Its not used as a bass note. or Root

If I had 13 strings I would've used a G as the bass note. Which I have been playing around with for some time. but since I only have 12 the F is great.

Its low F - like on a C6th extended tuning.

But a better way to see it as the bottom 6 produce their own rootless voicings without that low F it would lose its body and sound too thin. Which often was a problem for some when they heard the E13 tuning.

Hope that answer helps.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 11:50 am     Reply with quote

David M Brown wrote:
Stefan Robertson wrote:
2nd instalment added.

So why is it called E13/b9?

Enjoy!!!


Is that low F below all the other notes in the tuning or is it reentrant and higher pitched?

The reason I ask, is that a b9 is not a tone to to used as a bass note. It needs to be an upper interval to function in its proper harmonic context.

I know a number of steel players have come up with tuning with a reentrant high pitch "low" string, so I wan wondering about this one.


So yeah the Low F is the lowest note on the tuning. There are some cool ideas and lines you can come up with using it. Plus it sits so perfectly in the scale structures.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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David M Brown


From:
California, USA
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 5:39 pm     Reply with quote

Stefan Robertson wrote:
David M Brown wrote:
Stefan Robertson wrote:
2nd instalment added.

So why is it called E13/b9?

Enjoy!!!


Is that low F below all the other notes in the tuning or is it reentrant and higher pitched?

The reason I ask, is that a b9 is not a tone to to used as a bass note. It needs to be an upper interval to function in its proper harmonic context.

I know a number of steel players have come up with tuning with a reentrant high pitch "low" string, so I was wondering about this one.


So yeah the Low F is the lowest note on the tuning. There are some cool ideas and lines you can come up with using it. Plus it sits so perfectly in the scale structures.


Thank you for the response. I still have to wrap my brain around the b9 in the bass, though!
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 30 Dec 2016 8:48 pm     Reply with quote

Look at it as an F dim7.

I'll state some examples why soon enough.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 19 May 2017 3:25 am     Reply with quote

3rd instalment Added

https://ilapsteel.wordpress.com/discovering-e13-lap-steel-guitar-bilals-bebop/
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Frank Welsh


From:
Upstate New York, USA
Post Posted 19 May 2017 5:25 am     Reply with quote

Stefan, one aspect of the E13th I've not seen discussed are the relative advantages/disadvantages of the Jules Ah See version vs. the more common Leon McAuliffe version where the third string from the top is a B. I think the Jules Ah See (and Barney Isaacs) version has been called the "Hawaiian E13th". Both Jules and Barney have done some really hot improvisational work on recordings with their version (hi -e-c#-g#-f#-d-b-g#-e -low).

What could be the reason for the "Hawaiian E13th" not having that third B string? How would someone new to E13th decide which version to go with?
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 19 May 2017 5:53 am     Reply with quote

Frank Welsh wrote:
Stefan, one aspect of the E13th I've not seen discussed are the relative advantages/disadvantages of the Jules Ah See version vs. the more common Leon McAuliffe version where the third string from the top is a B. I think the Jules Ah See (and Barney Isaacs) version has been called the "Hawaiian E13th". Both Jules and Barney have done some really hot improvisational work on recordings with their version (hi -e-c#-g#-f#-d-b-g#-e -low).

What could be the reason for the "Hawaiian E13th" not having that third B string? How would someone new to E13th decide which version to go with?


Great to hear from you Frank. Any input is welcome.

I think a new player has 2 questions in non-pedal

How many strings?
What tuning?

As they advance if they have 2 necks I believe the standard setup should be E13th on the front (The money maker - classic pedal "grips" and higher pitch so the bassist and guitarist don't scream at you - whiny enough to make you cry")

and C6th on the back (The alternative)

Just like a pedal steel player has two necks E9th (money maker) and C6th their solo album work..

HOWEVER if there was one tuning for any genre of music and multiple strings I'd choose E13 all day best of both worlds and no one accuses your sound as being dated, but that's me.
Very Happy
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Mark Roeder


From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Post Posted 24 May 2017 12:30 pm     Reply with quote

If you were to set up an 8 string tuning, what do you think are the best 8 out of your 12 string tuning?
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Bob Watson


From:
Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
Post Posted 25 May 2017 1:00 am     Reply with quote

Frank, that is a great question. I have been playing around with the Jules Ah See tuning (which is also the same E13 tuning that Noel Boggs used) and it seems to lend itself to a more sophisticated sound than other popular tunings. The Leon McAuliffe tuning is a bit more like an E9 pedal steel tuning. I play pedal steel so it seems that the Leon McAuliffe tuning would be easier for me, but right now I'm going to stay with the Jules Au See tuning for awhile and see what I can get out of it. Stefan, I'll be curious to hear your answer to Marks question.
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Andy Volk


From:
Boston, MA
Post Posted 25 May 2017 8:35 am     Reply with quote

In case it's helpful, here's some info that was shared with me many years ago about the McAuliffe E13th. *

https://document.li/va55

Reading it today, it's a bit hard to totally get at the content. I like the concept of just grabbing strings to be able to solo. Early on, I realized you could follow the pattern of the E pentatonic scales in E13th (and other tunings) and play good, bluesy chord solos. Personally, I haven't played E13th much over the last ten years since I sold my Stringmaster.

* Note: I don't know anything about the site that's hosting this PDF or whether there's any risk of downloading from it. To be extra safe, take screen shots.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 25 May 2017 8:58 am     Reply with quote

Awesome Document


If I had to Compress my E13 Bebop to 8 strings it would be similar to Leon's EXCEPT I would change string 8 to G instead of E.

Why because a m9 chord will appear with a close voicing like my tuning and a M7 and m7 would be quick work.

Please see image below.



I believe this captures the basic essence of the E13 while maintaining some pedal steel beauty with more advanced voicings. HOWEVER I still think as a 12 string tuning its perfect. As I haven't found a chord I couldn't tackle. Kind of like a 12 string universal pedal steel.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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Stefan Robertson


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 25 May 2017 9:14 am     Reply with quote

Example

Fret 4

C, Eb, Bb, and Drop 2 voicing of C, Bb, Eb

Fret 5

C, E, B and Drop 2 voicing C, B, E

Aug is Fret 6 Reverse slant C, E, G#

m6 is C, Eb, A which is also a dim 7 reverse split slant its easier on the full 12 string tuning but can work on the 8 string with some practice.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F Bebop Tuning

Head & Hands to Steel your Heart.
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