INSTRUCTION STRINGS ACCESSORIES MUSIC LINKS
 Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com for Steel Guitars, Strings, Instruction, Music and Accessories 
Forum Index
where steel players meet online
The Steel Guitar Forum

Post new topic Different approach to strobe tuning
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Different approach to strobe tuning
Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 7 May 2017 8:05 pm     Reply with quote

A few years ago (3-4?), someone posted a novel way to use a strobe tuner to temper the tuning to match the specific characteristics of your own guitar (cabinet drop, etc.). A few forumites tried their method out and really liked it.

I'd like to check it out but can't seem to find the thread and don't remember who posted it or anything other than the vague description I gave above.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Can anyone help me track down that thread?

Thanks,
Jim
_________________

www.JimCohen.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Paul Stauskas


From:
Grand Prairie, TX
Post Posted 7 May 2017 8:35 pm     Reply with quote

After using the SE9 and SP9 settings for about 2 years and putting tuning out of my mind to focus on everything else that keeps a beginner busy, I tried a different approach as it had always felt slightly 'off'. Using the Peterson Strobe tuner, I set the concert 'A' to 442 Hz, the mode to 'EQU', and then tuned using common intervals as described by Jeff Rady in a video on his website. After getting a sound I liked, I used the 'offset' feature and found an offset amount (in cents) that made the strobe stop spinning. Then I transferred these numbers to the web application on Peterson's website and uploaded the new preset to my device.

This was a HUGE improvement to my ears.
_________________
Coolpedent, a free copedent manager and chord/scale finder
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jim Sliff


From:
Lawndale California, USA
Post Posted 7 May 2017 9:26 pm     Reply with quote

b0b and several others have posted various ways to program strobe tuners over t5h years.

I don't recall any methods of tuning tis a specific guitar (if fact I am very sure it's physically impossible) - but you can program many strobes for specific tunings and copedents. Using some ideas from a couple of the methods I was able to really improve the sound of an 8+2 B6 8-string and 3+4 (plus splits!) 10 string copedent.

These "tempered" tunings (and what Petersen calls "sweeteners") have been in existence in various forms for centuries and used widely on orchestral instruments. One similar to pedal steel is the type of harp that has levers that change the pitch of each string. Without tuning adjustments they'd sound very out of tune.

So, for that matter, would a piano, which is not tuned to each exact "note". It's never sound right is all the notes were tuned to "exact pitch".
_________________
No chops, but great tone
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 8 May 2017 4:53 am     Reply with quote

Jim, I think this method first measured the amount of detuning of various strings due to cabinet drop when various pedals (esp A&B) were depressed, then accounted for it specifically in the offsets that you'd then program into the strobe tuner. In that way, it was customized for your own guitar.

But I seem to recall there was more to it than that. Stupid me, I didn't make a note of the thread; I didn't have time to deal with it back then but knew I'd want to come back to it sooner or later. Now I'm all dressed up with no place to go... Sad
_________________

www.JimCohen.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
forrest klott


From:
Grand Rapids Mi USA
Post Posted 8 May 2017 6:29 am     Reply with quote

Jim,

I think perhaps Larry Bell might've posted something like this. I'll see if I can get any other info.

Skeeter
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post Posted 8 May 2017 7:58 am     Reply with quote

I recall that of our steel playing brethren from France posted a well thought out & novel approach to strobe tuning but can't remember his name. It was about 3 years ago.
View user's profile Send private message
Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 8 May 2017 8:01 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Tony. Now we're getting closer...
_________________

www.JimCohen.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jeff Harbour


From:
Western Ohio, USA
Post Posted 8 May 2017 8:38 am     Reply with quote

Here's a thread originated by my buddy Dick Sexton:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=164485&highlight=approach+strobe+tuning

Perhaps that's the one???
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 8 May 2017 8:48 am     Reply with quote

Jeff, thanks for that link! I think it was the Lozach method I was looking for. I'll check it out tonight in detail.
Thanks all,
Jim
_________________

www.JimCohen.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dan Beller-McKenna


From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
Post Posted 9 May 2017 6:45 am     Reply with quote

I dialed this in this morning and it is very sweet! I have been using Sid Hudson's offsets which I like quite a lot; I think this is even a little sweeter. Of course there are caveats. As mentioned in other threads, this puts you a little off pitch in open no pedals position. Enough to matter? I'll report back after rehearsal tonight. Also, my C pedal causes more cabinet drop than a or B, so I can't use the F# offered in the Lozach chart for my C pedal, have to dial it down quite a bit. Actually, I forgot to tune that change at first, and the setting left in there from the Hudson tuning sounded great. Also the open D against open F# is further out than in the Hudson tuning.

That said, the basic tuning I got from the Lozach chart was excellent.

Oh: for those like me who only have a tuner showing Herz (not cents), here is a good converter page:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dave Magram


From:
San Jose, California, USA
Post Posted 9 May 2017 10:32 pm     Reply with quote

Hi Jim,

Perhaps you are thinking of Larry Bell's very clever tuning method; it adjusts for each guitar's unique degree of cabinet drop.
It doesn't require a strobe tuner--any decent tuner will do fine.

I have found Larry Bell’s tuning method to work very well, since it centers around E at “440” (“straight-up” on tuner), but automatically compensates for any “cabinet drop” on your individual guitar—which no other method seems to do. Very clever, Larry!

*********************************************************
PSG Tuning – Larry Bell method

1. Push your A and B pedals and release a few times, then HOLD THE A & B PEDALS DOWN (ENGAGED).
Tune the E notes to be STRAIGHT UP (0 deflection) WITH THE A and B PEDALS ENGAGED

2. Release your A and B pedals (NO PEDALS ENGAGED)
Check your E strings. They may be be 4-8 cents sharp (441-442 on the Hertz scale), depending on your guitar's degree of cabinet drop.

Here's the clever trick:
Now tune the B's the same offset as the E's; if the open E's are 4 cents sharp, tune the open B's 4 cents sharp.

Rest of instructions at: http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm

*********************************************************
One reason why this works to well is that it maintains an accurate interval between the root (E) and the fifth (B)—and adjusts to each individual guitar to compensate for cabinet drop.

Since I have an Emmons push-pull (which is initially tuned with raises engaged), in Step 1 above I tune my A chord (A's, C#'s, and E's) with both A&B pedals down.
Then I follow Step 2 above for the B's.
After that, I check the rest of the strings as Larry describes on his website-- which is very similar to Jeff Newman’s original JI offsets based on (E= “440”).
Works great!

Thanks, Larry!

-Dave
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jim Sliff


From:
Lawndale California, USA
Post Posted 13 May 2017 11:06 am     Reply with quote

Quote:
Jim, I think this method first measured the amount of detuning of various strings due to cabinet drop when various pedals (esp A&B) were depressed, then accounted for it specifically in the offsets that you'd then program into the strobe tuner. In that way, it was customized for your own guitar.


That was (as noted above) Larry Bell's guitar-specific method. But there are "temperaments"/"Sweeteners" etc. that are tuning-speciific - down to offsets for every note achieved via a change.

I've temper tunings on literally every instrument I own - steel, 6-string, mando, uke, banjo - make a very significant difference as far a splaying "in tune". When I did sessions I'd have to adjust the basic "platform" if there was an acoustic piano present, but every other adjustment is simply "+/- cents".
_________________
No chops, but great tone
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Steel Guitar Music
Instrumental steel guitar CDs for your permanent collection
www.SteelGuitarMusic.com

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support This Forum


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for Band-in-a-Box
by Jim Baron
HTTP