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Topic: Tuning C6 on push/pull |
Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 3:40 pm |
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| How do you go about tuning the 10th string lower on a pushpull? The upper holes on the end plate have allen screws about flush with the end plate and turning the one at string 10 does nothing. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 6:04 pm
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| Sounds like you do not have enough slack in your 10th string raise so it is impeding the lower from going all the way down. |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 7:06 pm
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| Thanks Jack I'll check it out. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2017 10:21 pm
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Bobby,
As Jack said, on push-pulls, raises predominate over lowers. If a string isn’t lowering all the way, it’s likely that a raise on the same string isn’t providing enough slack for the lower to work properly.
First, make sure the string itself isn't really old and/or really dead. Sometimes the problem goes away with a new string.
If that doesn't help, a very useful trick is to determine if the screws in the changer finger are adjusted correctly—without using the pedal or the changer-rods, since sometimes it is the changer-rod that needs adjusting.
The way to do this (while the guitar is standing up in playing position) is to reach inside it with your thumb and push the lowering half of the changer finger to lower the note.
If the note won’t lower all the way down, even after backing out the Allen screw (on the top row), then it is likely that a raise on that string is not allowing the changer finger to lower all the way, and you will have to move the little collar involved with the raise on the changer-rod a small distance (start with 1/8†or so) away from the bell-crank to allow more room for the lowering change to function.
It is probably easier to work on the undercarriage with the guitar in its case, since you can then see the changer-finger lowering (or not).
Once this slack between raises and lowers is set correctly, it almost never has to be touched ever again.
-Dave |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 4:55 am
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| Thanks Dave, been playing the e neck for a while and finally got my head around the tuning but haven't had any problems there. Nobody ever talks about the c neck hardly. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 7:54 am
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| Check your collars on the raise for ten. You need about 1/4 inch between the puller and the collar. That is usually the culprit. String nine should be about the same thing. Charlie Ward taught me this years ago. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 9:35 am
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| Quote: |
| It is probably easier to work on the undercarriage with the guitar in its case, since you can then see the changer-finger lowering (or not). |
Dave's pretty much right on. Except. If you have no work bench. Turning the guitar upside down on the floor, place a pad under it unless you're on carpet. Would be easier for me than trying to work on it in the case. My wife's dinning table works great for this when she's not around.
The main thing to look for. The lowering member can still move back even when the raise rod is keeping you from lowering all the way. Hope this makes sense.
So keep in mind. Always tune you lowers first. Then set the raise rod to pull the raise to pitch, but also allow enough slack to let the string lower to perfect pitch.
| Quote: |
| Check your collars on the raise for ten. You need about 1/4 inch between the puller and the collar. That is usually the culprit. String nine should be about the same thing. |
Sorry, I don't agree with this. AS every raise and lower takes a different amount of throw-travel. If you prescribe to this method. You'll have too much slop-unnecessary slack in most of the undercarriage.
One thing I haven't seen suggested in this thread. Make sure the collar on the lowering - push rod has not slipped. Also check to make the bellcrank is tight and not slipping.
Hope this helps.
b. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 9:59 am
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| Say what you want. Charlie knew his push-pulls and when I got done adjusting mine that is what I had. You may be right Bobby somewhat. I know you need some slop for things to work right. |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 3:34 pm
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| Thanks fellas, I'm a heavy equipment mechanic by trade so you'd think it should come easy but I've never had one apart and put back together haha. These are great sounding guitars but a lot of moving parts. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 5:14 pm
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| Quote: |
| You need about 1/4 inch between the puller and the collar. |
Well now you have a choice. You can do it the way the Emmons Co recommended. Or you can allow about a 1/4 inch between the collar and the bellcrank.
The P/p guru's are going to be upset this tid bit was shared. But at least now they'll have more spare time.
Seriously, 1/4 inch slack is just a ball park figure at best. Much like advising someone with and all pull to try the middle hole in the bell-crank when they ask how a pull should be rodded.
On a P/P, the raises and lowers,(All changes on every pedal or knee.) must be timed out for the pedal or knee to have a good solid feel. Properly sized and adjusted Compression springs play a big part in this. The length of the compression spring itself effects how much slack you have or don't have.
I'll stop now. Sorry this got long. Rod your guitar anyway you like. It's yours. However, I suggest the builders way as it cuts down on the guess work.
b. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2017 9:23 pm
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Bobby H.,
If you're a heavy equipment mechanic, I'm sure you know the value of a good repair manual. 
I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar". Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis, and is an expert on Emmons push-pulls.
The booklet shows how to make simple adjustments or even take the entire guitar apart and put it back together. In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out on your own.
He usually sells the booklet on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Guide Booklet" for $15.
He also sells a combo package of the book and 2 DVDs as "Pedal Steel Guitar METHODOLOGY P/P Book & DVD's Package" for $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pedal-Steel-Guitar-METHODOLOGY-P-P-Book-DVDs-Package-/280598597396?hash=item4154facf14:m:mq3a0o4iYsHWH3NaXQmX_lQ
(I'd recommend the combo package.)
You may never need it, but it’s great to have for the rare time when something does go wrong, and you have to leave for a gig in the next 30 minutes. 
- Dave |
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Bobby Hearn
From:
Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 7 Apr 2017 5:58 am
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| Gonna order that book and cds today Dave, thanks. |
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