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Topic: Top D note on C6. Buddy Emmons |
Richard Nelson
From:
Drogheda, Louth, Ireland
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 9:01 am |
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Sorry, he made the change around 1970 even though it's not even used on the Emmons INS- Black LP. Recorded mid 71 I think.
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 9:51 am
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Another strange thing... In the 'Pedal Steel Guitar' book (Winston/Keith), only one player's copedant has the D on top, and it's Not Buddy... It's Bobby Black...
If Buddy changed in 1970, I wonder why that book (1975) doesn't reflect it? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 10:23 am
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There are one or two setups in the back of that book that are contradicted elsewhere. Gathering information was slower and less certain back then. And players change their minds without necessarily informing the world.
Also bear in mind the practice of tuning the top string down from G to D for certain numbers (which works better than it should); if asked, the player would presumably declare a G.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 11:12 am
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| I've watched a few people re-tune the top string from D to G and back to D again between numbers. It's pretty scaring watching the string slowly make it all the way up to G! Not sure what the sting gauge was but it sounded great in both positions. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 11:21 am
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| Herby Wallace still used the G on the top string. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 11:25 am
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Can someone post a link to the phrase in question? Just curious. Buddy, like any true master had the art of making things sound like they were played in one pocket when they were indeed played in another several frets in either direction. Closer listening and a little digging will reveal his. Should that be the case. This is especially true in rapid tempo things.
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 1:49 pm
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| Not sure what the string gauge was but it sounded great in both positions. |
My first guitar came with a top G and when I discovered that D was more common I tuned it down as a temporary measure. It must have been a 0.012" or thereabouts. When I finally got round to putting a heavier one on, it didn't sound all that much better!
If you're going to retune up and down as a regular thing, it would have to be the thin one 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 1:52 pm
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I normally use G on top and a .012 string (the standard gauge supplied with George L's strings that I use). I've "toyed" with the D and tuning the .012 down to D still sounds good on my guitar.
I had a "name" steeler play my guitar about 10 years ago and he tuned the 1st string down to D and I didn't notice any imbalance in sound. It still sounded good tuned down to D.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2017 7:34 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| Herby Wallace still used the G on the top string. |
...And I believe Jernigan still does. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 6:44 am
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| Sorry Jeff, Doug changed to D twenty to thirty years ago. I'm aware Buddy has said he experimented with it before recording the "Black" album, but the earliest setup I can find in print is in the Steel Guitarist magazine issued in 1978! There he has his tuning similar to his "Swing Shift" series: D on one; four knee levers; and E-F sixth string on pedal four.JS |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 8:14 am
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I think some C6 steelers have gone to a 12 string neck so they can have both a high D & G, the best of both worlds.  |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 8:49 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| I've watched a few people re-tune the top string from D to G and back to D again between numbers. It's pretty scaring watching the string slowly make it all the way up to G! Not sure what the sting gauge was but it sounded great in both positions. |
Doug Jernigan will do this in concert to perform "Streets of Laredo" and the classical number whose name escapes me unaccompanied. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 9:00 am
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| The 12 string C6 is simply amazing! You get back the high G string, you get the newer D string and as a bonus you get a 4 scale note,F, on top. All without changing any of the classic C6 grips. This adds a lot of chromatic content although the top two chromatic strings are not identical scale notes to the top two E9th strings. It feels instantly at home and logical. |
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Len Ryder
From:
Penticton B.C.
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 9:26 am
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| I used a "G" on the first and raised it to an "A" till the day I retired. If I remember correctly I believe I used a .12 gauge. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 9:26 am
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| John Swain wrote: |
| I'm aware Buddy has said he experimented with it before recording the "Black" album |
I recall reading somewhere that Buddy said he already was using the first string D before recording the Black Album, but used the G on that record because it was recorded at least in part as a marketing demo for the Emmons Guitar Company and the G was still the factory standard setup. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 10:57 am
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| it was recorded at least in part as a marketing demo |
Good reminder of how some decisions are non-musical 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 11:29 am
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I went to D in 1977, thanks to Paul Jr. and Mike Smith talking to me about playing in a minor key. It also led me to find alternative ways of playing a 5th-on-top inversion.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 5:05 pm
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| John Swain wrote: |
| Sorry Jeff, Doug changed to D twenty to thirty years ago... |
Oops... Don't know why I thought I saw something recent on that. |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2017 8:23 pm
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Greg is correct. I have never played a 10 string steel. In 1966 I bought a D12 MSA and have been playing 12 string steels ever since. I went directly from an 8 string Fender 400 to the 12 string configuration. I always used a high G on C6 even on the 8 string Fender 400. When I got my D12 I tuned the C6 with top two strings D and G and I use an F below the C on the 12th string. On my non-pedal 12 string the top 3 strings are D, B, G in order to get a chromatic sound on the non-pedal. It seems to me that the west coast steelers, where I am from, were so far from Nashville that they seem to create their own setups and styles, but steel guitar is subject to much creativity anyway.
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Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Dave Ristrim
From:
Whites Creek, TN
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Posted 27 Mar 2017 12:54 pm
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| I like that idea of the low F. I play 12 strings and my C6 setup has a low A on the 12th string, standard C-G next and the D on the 1st string. Bobby Black tuned his D12's like that when he toyed with 12 strings back in the day. |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2017 5:22 pm
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Yes Dave, Bobby and I are from the same area in California. Seen him and his brother many times. I like the bottom I get with chords from that low F.
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Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Dave Ristrim
From:
Whites Creek, TN
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Posted 28 Mar 2017 3:51 am
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Robbie, when did you leave the Bay Area? I was born in San Jose (1960) and lived there up until moving to Nashville in 1999. Bobby is the reason I bought my first Franklin. I used to hang out with him at the clubs back in the day.
What gauge string do you use for that F? |
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Robbie Daniels
From:
Casper, Wyoming, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2017 1:25 pm
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I left the bay area about 1967. My father had retired in Shingleton, up by Redding, and I moved there when my father had an accident and from there I went to Reno to do road work and eventually ended up in Casper WY when I left the road tour. I used to play a lot of the old places in San Jose as well as the Oakland, San Francisco bay area. The gauge on the low F depends on what will fit in my changer pulley. I usually end up with about a 72 gauge. Good to hear from you.
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Carter D12, MSA S12, 12 String Custom Made Non-Pedal, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Nashville 400, Fender Steel King |
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Steve Sycamore
From:
Sweden
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Posted 30 Mar 2017 3:18 am
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| I've read that Buddy had an additional knee lever that allowed him to get the same chord he would have played on a guitar with the D string on his later tuning by playing 3 frets up. But he liked the timbre much better playing 3 frets up with the knee lever engaged. |
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