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Post new topic Using a Looper: Voice-Leading, Counterpoint & Sanity-Munch
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Author Topic:  Using a Looper: Voice-Leading, Counterpoint & Sanity-Munch
David Mason


From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
Post  Posted 11 Mar 2017 9:13 pm    
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(This is huge, but b0b says OK. If there's a way to condense it, by all means do!)

Firstly, I mean loopers not switchers. A looper = anything that starts and stops recording parts easily, and will repeat parts and overdub more on top of those easily. A lot of just simple delays, most modern multi-effects are now loaded with a 30 or 40 second looper, and it's really easy to do in the free Audacity recording program. They can all be set up so you step on it to record, step on it again and it stops recording but plays the loop, you step on it again to record over the first part, again to play back the two parts etc. You can pick up a used Digitech RP155 or Zoom G1 for peanuts, all sorts of dedicated loopers around $100; you will never, ever put them away.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Shortly after I started to get consonant with looping, I realized that there was a GREAT and so-far unapplied benefit to steel, non-pedal especially. It lies in playing complex(-er) chord parts, normally beyond your chops, tunings and (accessable) number of strings. It'll go way beyond because, simply, you don't have to play all the notes in real time. If a progression is laden with sneaky little foreigners - 7ths, 9ths, Sus's or 13th notes, even devil b5's, you can still outline the chord progression with your basic caveman 1+3+5 triads on the first pass (adjust for devil) and then add in the squirrel notes on the next pass around.

And then shortly, the next realization, you can fully entertain and apply counterpoint and voice-leading affects as effects.

Say you play a 1-4-5 chord progression, as used in "Good Lovin'" and (maybe) a couple other songs? In numeric scale tone terms, these are the tones of the inversions of the 1, 4 and 5 chords. You can take ANY one from any set for the 1 chord, the 2nd note from that set for the 4 chord, and the 3rd note from that set for the 5 chord and 5 chord and "draw" up three melodic lines.

INVERSIONS OF THE "1" CHORD

135 351 513
153 315 531

INVERSIONS OF THE "4" CHORD

461 614 146
164 641 416

(4=11, 6=13)

INVERSIONS OF THE "5" CHORD

572 725 257
752 527 275

(2=9, 5=12, 7=14)

Say you choose
One chord - 1 3 5
Four chord - 6 1 4
Five chord - 2 7 5

You RECORD:

1-> 6-> 2, then overdub ->
3-> 1-> 7, then overdub ->
5-> 4-> 5

Then this plays through as the 1 - 4 - 5 chord progression. Three chords, 16 inversions each - 216 possibilities, BEFORE you even think about directions, open/close voicings. Chords don't HAVE to resolve on the first beat, there are passing tones, hint at one chord before playing another, doubled octaves shifting around; CONTRARY MOTION is the heart of "counterpoint." And, like, according to "the rules" you shouldn't chase after large, fifth-or-more swoops or dives, so of course - bombs away! They (can) sometimes work and sound really neat. I will say, STOP here and fiddle a bit. It's hairy. I don't play well off a computer screen, it's easier for me to print some guides and then scribble notes on them (colored pencils = more yield). You may not need printed paper; but paper's cheap. You can print the inversions without labels and chatter. So here are the 1 -4 -5 inversions in a very useful form:

135 351 513
153 315 531

461 614 146
164 641 416

572 725 257
752 527 275



135 351 513
153 315 531

461 614 146
164 641 416

572 725 257
752 527 275

that's two sets, cut n' paste, just the numbers to a single page, blow them up to 28 or so, space them to preference (this program is really crunching them!); print as needed.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I say stop and fiddle for a while, but (then) I do have a group of four 4-note chords drawn up. Hairy + TEETH + CLAWS. Whether you treat the numbers as major, minor, whether you use major or flatted 7ths or 6ths is all choice; what I'm calling "7ths" will get you to half-step and whole-step intervals and many of these will be "wrong" and totally squirrelly plotted out in a specific key. Plot them over SuperLocrian scales & Double Harmonic Minor if you hate your family, up to you. But the only way I can mentally track 64 inversions is with a systematic "run through the numbers", fix them however WORKS if you need to. Here are the inversions:

INVERSIONS OF THE "1" CHORD

1357 3571 5713 7135
3157 1573 5731 7315
3175 1753 7531 5317
5137 1375 3715 7153

INVERSIONS OF THE "4" CHORD

4613 6134 1346 3416
6413 4136 1364 3641
6431 4316 3164 1643
1436 4361 3614 6143

INVERSIONS OF THE "5" CHORD

5724 7245 5724 4572
7524 4752 2475 5247
7542 2754 4275 5427
2754 5274 4527 7452

INVERSIONS OF THE "7" CHORD

7246 2467 4672 2467
2746 6274 4627 7462
2764 7642 6427 4276
6247 7624 4762 2476

(2=9, 3=10, 4=11, 5=12, 6=13, 7=14 etc.)

If you make the mistake of listening to "real" string quartets (Beethoven? Just Say NO!!) you hear that, like, some notes are staccato, and some notes... swoop up quickly while other notes swoop down slowly, some things resolve over there and not over here and just when you think you know which is the root - it's not anymore; aak. Here's just the numbers, again C&P, blow 'em up, RE-SPACE! them - TAB works - (they're less scary de-crunched), then print, scribble on them like a madman, because soon enough: you will be.

1357 3571 5713 7135
3157 1573 5731 7315
3175 1753 7531 5317
5137 1375 3715 7153

4613 6134 1346 3416
6413 4136 1364 3641
6431 4316 3164 1643
1436 4361 3614 6143

5724 7245 5724 4572
7524 4752 2475 5247
7542 2754 4275 5427
2754 5274 4527 7452

7246 2467 4672 2467
2746 6274 4627 7462
2764 7642 6427 4276
6247 7624 4762 2476

I tried to run these with spaces inserted, but they just got EATEN up. If I do like this it'll get stupid whan YOU enlarge it:

6247....7624....4762....2476

There are 13,824 combinations available for the 1- 4- 5- b7 progressions, BEFORE you get busy - heh heh heh... I haven't even yet written out a full diatonic "cheat sheet" for myself but I sure will, it's REALLY HARD to think/consider on this stuff and play at the same time. But I suspect:

IT'S A MAJOR, HUGE, EARTH-RATTLING DOORWAY TO BEYOND!

At least it sure is quickly and efficiently teaching me I don't know doodly-squat. What Mozart was working on at the age of 3.... WAAH. AAK; get busy, I guess.

(You can ALSO set a long delay with high repeats and ducking if you have it, so: the first pluck of the first note is just about gone at the last pluck of the last note, and then you can start to SHIFT and nudge the chords into: something else. People like John Lord & Larry Young (Khalid Yasin) {Brian Eno? Steve Reich?} used to do this all the time and now IT'S RIGHT THERE. I don't know why all the steel players aren't all doing this, all the time, except maybe that it's MIND-BLOWINGLY BRAIN-CRUNCHING really, really hard.)
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Karlis Abolins


From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
Post  Posted 13 Mar 2017 6:42 am    
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David, Can you post some examples of using loopers? Seeing it on paper (or screen) is one thing but hearing the result brings it to a whole new level.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 13 Mar 2017 7:49 pm    
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These are simply called permutations, and yes, if you want to be an improviser on any kind of deeper level, this is stuff you need to work on, among others. I've worked and still work a lot with my faithful copy of Slonimsky Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns.
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Dave Mudgett


From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Post  Posted 14 Mar 2017 12:05 am    
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Yup, Mike. In fact, the inversions are, mathematically, cyclic permutations of the notes. A permutation of elements in a set is simply an ordering of the elements - in this case, the elements are notes. For example, consider the inversions of the 1 chord:

1357 3571 5713 7135 and then if you continue the pattern, it gets back to 1357, hence the term 'cyclic'. The cyclic permutation group is, essentially, the simplest group of nontrivial permutations possible. There are always exactly n cyclic permutations of n elements.

As noted, there is a large array of other permutations possible. These involve fundamentally changing the order of the notes, e.g., instead of 1357 3571 5713 7135, one could have the more general group of permutations:

1357 1375 1537 1573 1735 1753
3157 3175 3517 3571 3715 3751

and there are two more rows of 6, starting at 5 and 7, respectively. I'm organizing the rows this way simply to make it easier to keep track of all of the possibilities.

Overall, there are n! (n factorial) distinct permutations of n elements. And thus, 4! = 4*3*2*1 = 24 distinct permutations of 4 elements.

I frequently think about permutations like this in terms of arpeggios, where there is a time-ordering of the notes.

And one can do the same thing with scales. It can get very interesting, but complex. The number of permutations of notes in a typical diatonic scale (7 distinct notes) is 7! = 5040. The cyclic permutations are just the modes.
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 14 Mar 2017 1:47 pm    
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I wish I understood what you guys are talking about. I know about inversions, but what about them? When I play different inversions of the same chord, to me, it sounds...pretty much the same. "A" open (pedals down) - "A" (no pedals) at the 5th fret. This isn't nearly as exciting to me (the mere cycling through various inversions) as it apparently is to you guys.

What am I missing?
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 14 Mar 2017 4:15 pm    
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Donnie, take a CMaj7 chord in root position: C E G B
Now, play a 1st inversion CMaj7 voiced like this, where the B and C are a 1/2 step apart: E B C G
Still sound the same to you?
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David Mason


From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
Post  Posted 14 Mar 2017 11:32 pm    
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It's the MOVEMENT of the various voices that gets so fascinating with steel. I do know, and sometimes practice, the same thing that six-stringers do - which is to try to sound like a piano. You play one note for a certain exact time value, and then right to another note, to play it for it's full value. A little mute in between but don't play up the slides. Hide them, go for accuracy, it's a great exercise, but it's easy to get stuck in your exercises because you got good at them.

But then, ahem... go play a piano if that's what you love! That's an exercise on steel, not (to me) the point of the thing. Oh Looky! What's this bar thing for.... And you'll hear some of the possibilities in jazz - "Milestones" is really obviously just totally toying with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k94zDsJ-JMU
starting at 0:16.

Miles is on my Mt. Rushmore, and the arranging Gil Evans did with him on "Porgy & Bess" and Sketches of Spain is loaded with this stuff. Mr. Perlowin is chasing a bit of it around on "West Side Story." But the major gob of it is classical music. I had a bass teacher (oh god, was it, 45 years ago?) who insisted you could write out the CHORD CHANGES on things like symphonies, yeah haha, right - I didn't BELIEVE him until 8 or 9 years ago. I really JUST started specifically listening for these things... embarrassing. I wish I'd been payng attention. (snif)

I believe that normal regular non-perverse people like Haydn & Bach may be the best listening for me now. The perverts like Mozart just LOVED to hide the changes, and sneakily make really odd things sound normal? I've really kinda KNOWN about this for a few years, but it was listening to Bartok string quartets that finally busted my prisoners out of Skull Prison... however, Bartok's kinda slow, which is nice, but I don't even want to TRY to touch it because he's ALL OVER diminished (half-step whole-step half-step etc) scales and who... what the... some kinda of whacked-out Hungarian b9 funeral dirges, I just can't HEAR it. Yet.

I have piles of me trying various exercises saved in Audacity. To post them, if someboy cares, I'd what - stick them in Soundcloud? I guess I'll go look. But the exercises are experiments, mostly proving how hard this is and how awful I am at it. My intonation's OK, but TIMING this stuff... I have a new-found respect for tight string section players. 10,000 hours indeed. I'll look at this and see if there's a PATTERN of running through them that works. There's an exact cycle I used to generate the charts, but you then HAVE to skip out of a straight order to get to (close) contrary motion. I mean, play this:
135
461
572 - you play it 1-4-5, 3-6-7, 5-1-2 and that's just like the barre chords, and the next:
351
614
725 is just up, up, up. It needs a twist to break the order, maybe I can draw the chart different. Darn this is hard.
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