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Post new topic **FIXED** My Goodrich Match-Bro Died
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Author Topic:  **FIXED** My Goodrich Match-Bro Died
Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 4 Oct 2016 6:57 am     Reply with quote

Progress, thanks to Bob Lawrence's schematic.
Q8 is bad (input transistor) and possibly Q9. There was no signal on the Q8 collector.

I don't have any MPS A18 transistors but I had one 2N3904 (NPN like the A18) so I installed that and now getting signal, although low and distorted signal.

I've ordered some A18 transistors on e-bay. ETA is next Tuesday. I'll resume testing after I get the A18's and replace both Q8 and Q9 (since they are direct coupled).
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Chris Boyd


From:
Leonia,N.J./Charlestown,R.I.
Post Posted 4 Oct 2016 6:58 am     Reply with quote

I wish I had your electronics knowledge Jack !
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Bob Lawrence


From:
Beaver Bank, Nova Scotia, Canada
Post Posted 4 Oct 2016 7:17 am     Reply with quote

@Jack Stoner


Quote:

Progress, thanks to Bob Lawrence's schematic.
Q8 is bad (input transistor) and possibly Q9. There was no signal on the Q8 collector.



Great Jack,

Don't forget that there are sure to be mistakes in the schematic lol but hopefully it's not too bad. If I can borrow another MatchBro someday I will finish it. I was going to build one for fun and I'm fairly sure I have the MPSA18's in my parts stash. Smile

The MPSA18 are low noise


Also MPSA18 = NTE47

NTE47
Silicon NPN Transistor
High Gain, Low Noise Amp
Absolute Maximum Ratings:
Collector–Emitter Voltage, VCEO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45V
Collector–Base Voltage, VCBO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45V
Emitter–Base Voltage, VEBO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.5V
Continuous Collector Current, IC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200mA
Total Device Dissipation (TA = +25°C), PD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 625mW
Derate above 25°C 12mW/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . °C
Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . –55° to +150°C
Storage Temperature Range, Tstg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . –55° to +150°C
Thermal Resistance, Junction–to–Case, RthJC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83.3°C/W
Thermal Resistance, Junction–to–Ambient (Note 1), RthJA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200°C/W

http://www.nteinc.com/specs/10to99/pdf/nte47.pdf
======================================================
MPSA18

Electrical Characteristics TA = 25°C unless otherwise noted
OFF CHARACTERISTICS
Symbol Parameter Test Conditions Min Max Units
V(BR)CEO Collector-Emitter Breakdown Voltage* IC = 10 mA, IB = 0 45 V
V(BR)CBO Collector-Base Breakdown Voltage IC = 100 µA, IE = 0 45 V
V(BR)EBO Emitter-Base Breakdown Voltage IE = 10 µA, IC = 0 6.5 V
ICBO Collector Cutoff Current VCB = 30 V, IE = 0 50 nA
ON CHARACTERISTICS*
hFE DC Current Gain VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 10 µA
VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 100 µA
VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 1.0 mA
VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 10 mA
400
500
500
500 1500
VCE(sat) Collector-Emitter Saturation Voltage IC = 10 mA, IB = 0.5 mA
IC = 50 mA, IB = 5.0 mA
0.2
0.3
V
V
VBE(on) Base-Emitter On Voltage VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 1.0 mA 0.7 V
SMALL SIGNAL CHARACTERISTICS
Ccb Collector-Base Capacitance VCB = 5.0 V, f = 1.0 MHz 3.0 pF
Ceb Emitter-Base Capacitance VEB = 0.5 V, f = 1.0 MHz 6.5 pF
fT Current Gain - Bandwidth Product IC = 1.0 mA, VCE = 5.0 V,
f = 100 MHz
100 MHz
NF Noise Figure VCE = 5.0 V, IC = 100 µA,
RS = 10 kΩ, f = 1.0 kHz,
1.5 dB

http://www.redrok.com/NPN_MPSA18_45V_100mA_0.625W_Hfe400_TO-92.pdf

===================================================

3904

TYPE NUMBER
PACKAGE
NAME DESCRIPTION VERSION
2N3904 SC-43A plastic single-ended leaded (through hole) package; 3 leads SOT54
SYMBOL PARAMETER CONDITIONS MIN. MAX. UNIT
VCBO collector-base voltage open emitter − 60 V
VCEO collector-emitter voltage open base − 40 V
VEBO emitter-base voltage open collector − 6 V
IC collector current (DC) − 200 mA
ICM peak collector current − 300 mA
IBM peak base current − 100 mA
Ptot total power dissipation Tamb ≤ 25 °C; note 1 − 500 mW
Tstg storage temperature −65 +150 °C
Tj junction temperature − 150 °C
Tamb ambient temperature −65 +150

http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/2N3904_4.pdf
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Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 5 Oct 2016 4:19 am     Reply with quote

Bob, I found the spec sheets for those transistors on the web.

Although the 2N3904 doesn't work right it works enough to prove that the Q8 was bad.

I'll resume work on the MatchBro after I get the A18 transistors.
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Bob Lawrence


From:
Beaver Bank, Nova Scotia, Canada
Post Posted 11 Oct 2016 8:21 pm     Reply with quote

@ Jack Stowner
Quote:

Bob, I found the spec sheets for those transistors on the web.

Although the 2N3904 doesn't work right it works enough to prove that the Q8 was bad.


I didn't post the info for you per say. I understood what you did with the 3904 and why you did it. I just posted the info for everyone one else that's reading along that maybe didn't have the info handy, so that they could follow along.

Very Happy
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Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 6:10 am     Reply with quote

FIXED!

I finally received the MPS A18 transistors yesterday. Both Q8 and Q9 (in Bob's schematic) were replaced. The MatchBro is now working. I couldn't have done it without Bob Lawrence's schematic. A very big THANK YOU.

I suspect the one dead 9VDC battery caused the problem.
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 6:13 am     Reply with quote

This is great.
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Bob Lawrence


From:
Beaver Bank, Nova Scotia, Canada
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 6:30 am     Reply with quote

@Jack Stoner

re: FIXED!

Perfect, it's great that you got it going. If I update the schematic sometime in the future I will let you know.



Very Happy
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 8:44 am     Reply with quote

Jack and Bob. That's terrific. I'm fascinated by electronics but not very knowledgeable. With the help of my cousin, we rebuilt a Matchbox several years ago, but it never sounded the same and ultimately failed for about the 5th time.

I have the utmost respect for you guys that have expertise in the field.

If you don't mind a question, could you explain how a dead 9V battery could cause component failure? Thanks. JO.
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Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 10:26 am     Reply with quote

Quote:
If you don't mind a question, could you explain how a dead 9V battery could cause component failure?


I don't know that it did. The MatchBro uses two 9V DC batteries, which I think are in series. I've discussed this with an "EE" friend and haven't come up with any reason. The dead battery, if it was internally shorted, is the closest we can come to any theory.

Another thought, of mine, is I've noticed the MatchBro didn't quite sound the same the last month or so. The main reason I replaced the batteries (and unfortunately with one new defective). Maybe the transistor(s) were marginal to start with and the battery problem just "forced the issue".
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Lee Baucum


From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 10:29 am     Reply with quote

Great news, Jack!

Now we have a "go to" guy for MatchBro repairs! Laughing
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Jack Stoner


From:
Inverness, Fl
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 11:46 am     Reply with quote

Lee, one lucky repair does not make me the "MatchBro Guru" Cool Laughing
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Lee Baucum


From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
Post Posted 16 Oct 2016 1:50 pm     Reply with quote

Jack Stoner wrote:
Lee, one lucky repair does not make me the "MatchBro Guru" Cool Laughing


Jack - Given your background and your knowledge base about electronics, I doubt luck had much to do with your success. I'm so happy we aren't reading about your MatchBro in the "Gone Home" section!

Lee
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 17 Oct 2016 8:28 am     Reply with quote

Jack Stoner wrote:
Quote:
If you don't mind a question, could you explain how a dead 9V battery could cause component failure?


I don't know that it did. The MatchBro uses two 9V DC batteries, which I think are in series. I've discussed this with an "EE" friend and haven't come up with any reason. The dead battery, if it was internally shorted, is the closest we can come to any theory.

Another thought, of mine, is I've noticed the MatchBro didn't quite sound the same the last month or so. The main reason I replaced the batteries (and unfortunately with one new defective). Maybe the transistor(s) were marginal to start with and the battery problem just "forced the issue".


Thanks Jack. Always looking to learn something.
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Bob Lawrence


From:
Beaver Bank, Nova Scotia, Canada
Post Posted 14 Mar 2017 7:10 pm     MatchBro Sloder Side Reply with quote

I had a request from someone for this image and decided to put it here to keep it all together with the other MatchBro info.


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