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Topic: Steel, is it getting pushed out??? |
Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 6 Mar 2017 11:56 am
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Richard Nelson wrote: |
Trends come and go . Steel will always come back . Remember the early 80's ? There wasn't much steel around then .... Randy Travis and Ricky Scaggs brought it back . |
So you think of music as trends. Now that's funny! _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Mark Eaton
From: Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 6 Mar 2017 12:56 pm
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Joachim Kettner wrote: |
Richard Nelson wrote: |
Trends come and go . Steel will always come back . Remember the early 80's ? There wasn't much steel around then .... Randy Travis and Ricky Scaggs brought it back . |
So you think of music as trends. Now that's funny! |
Joachim, I don't get the joke. (?)
Richard - probably the two most mixed up names in the music biz:
Ricky Skaggs
Boz Scaggs _________________ Mark |
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Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 3:52 am
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I don't think there will a "New Tradionalists" trend in the future, Mark. _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Howard Parker
From: Maryland
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 6:15 am
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Joachim Kettner wrote: |
I don't think there will a "New Tradionalists" trend in the future, Mark. |
I would gently disagree. It's called "Americana".
Plenty of twang.. |
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Steven Hicken Jr.
From: Leeds, United Kingdom
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 10:08 am
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Howard Parker wrote: |
Joachim Kettner wrote: |
I don't think there will a "New Tradionalists" trend in the future, Mark. |
I would gently disagree. It's called "Americana".
Plenty of twang.. |
Totally agree Howard.
Look at First Aid Kit.
I know a lot of young people in England who love their music.
In fact, two lasses from my school a year or so ago actually approached me to play the song Emmylou with them.
Cheers _________________ 25 year old wannabe.
2015 Show Pro
2020 Hudson Hudsonator (Pedabro)
202X *Insert new guitar here*
https://www.stevenhickenjr.com/ |
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Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 10:09 am
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"Americana" I never liked that term. I'm sure there are many good artists that fall into the category. But they will never be as well known as those in the mid- eighties.
On the other side the listerners of contemporary Americana are sophisticated, so some of them could possibly start exploring the steel. _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Howard Parker
From: Maryland
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 10:27 am
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It's nothing more than a label and a broad one at that.
I'm booked at venues that would never consider "country". As an "Americana" band you might dig into our set list and find covers by Emmylou, Conway, Loretta, Patsy, George..etc. in addition to other twangy stuff including originals.
Get the picture?
You might not get (or care) about the label but most everyone I play for is in the 30-45 yo age bracket. That's a good place to be I think.
Old dog + new label = new market
I'm not suggesting this is a magic elixir for aging steel players. I'm just pointing to a strategy that seems to have worked for me. Trust me when I say that there is nothing unique/special about my abilities. I just had a desire to play in front of an audience and found a home in this space.
ymmv
h |
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Howard Parker
From: Maryland
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 10:44 am
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As an aside, check out the Americana Music Assoc. awards.
You'll see familiar names.
h |
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David Mason
From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2017 8:23 pm
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I personally have serious disc problems, I'm lucky to be able to play anything at all, but: I get up about 5:30am, peak about 9am; by 7pm, fergit it, bands here START at 10pm. So what I hear is what I find, but a much larger factor is: I don't much care for a lot of the music that is being played by a lot of bands, which of course is fine. Some have steel, some don't. One of the newer darlings of the summer festival/jamband circuit is the New Orleans-based "Revivalists", here's a clip with a few million views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Pt7M0weUI
They tote a fulltime steel player who is in there in the mix, doing a good bit of chordal work. They're not WHAPPIN' you with it, but he's busy. Overall, they're not my cup of tea. But they got #1 on some...thing... make enough categories, everybody can win! Yikes. Ed Williams, pedal steel guitar, get'm Ed.
There's another whole genre called "post-rock", which has been kinda rudely described as Album-Oriented Rock without Vocals -AORWOV? The "Red Sparowes" are awash in pedal steel, and still kicking hard. But I don't particularly like them. Greg Burns, pedal steel guitar - get'm Greg! I mean, going through that list of over 100 I keep citing ad nausea*, there's only maybe 15 I would listen to repeatedly if I didn't have more other stuff to do. But it's THERE, is all. I wouldn't buy music I didn't like just because it had steel, likewise I wish a number of them (cited) like Christopher Woitach WOULD find an outlet/excuse/budget/SOMEthing to make a steel CD, because me and probably three other people would buy it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axEmQ4oPq3Q
He has a like a "chamber jazz" clip somewhere in that thread I don't have time to dig up right away, but it is tubular. Totally.
*(Latin for "plus barfy")
P.S.("Americana" is OBVIOUSLY what could also be called "real country music." No Nudie suits unless they're worn out, no fake holes in the knees of brand-new, yet-thrashed, blue jeans; huh? Gurrrls... Just songs that tell stories and start at the beginning and go to the end. WHO to blame for what is now called "country music?" I don't have time to worry on it. 4 out of 5 psychiatrists recommend - SHOOT yer RADIO & yer TELEVISION.) |
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Bruce Bjork
From: Southern Coast of Maine
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Posted 8 Mar 2017 6:50 am
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First Aid Kit, never heard of this duo before, but will be listening to them going forward.
Great music
https://youtu.be/Y3TzP-o4vhs _________________ Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best" |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Jonathan Lam
From: Brooklyn, NY
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2017 3:20 pm
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Jonathan Lam wrote: |
Not sure if steel is used more or less than the moment this thread started as compared to right now. please discuss. |
Mine has been getting a lot more use since February. Some of it even outside the key of G.
Seriously, I'm sure there are more steel players than there are steel gigs, same as it ever was and ever shall be. But, there also may be more of both now than there ever were. If the forum is a good indicator of how many players there are, then pedal steel is far from becoming an obscure little anachronism. |
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David Mitchell
From: Tyler, Texas
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 5:29 am
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Refering to what Herb Steiner said Walter Haynes told me at his house one day he had a video of him playing steel with Patsy Cline in a club. Somehow he never got around to finding it for me but I'm gonna get Cindy to find it someday. That would be interesting to hear what she had to say between songs.
Regarding the demise of traditional country music and the steel guitar I say it was me and you older folks and the listeners that loved it so much is who killed it.
Let me explain. I'll use myself as an example. It's probably been about 40 years since I paid to go see any singer in clubs, rodeos or concerts. It's been about 12 years now since I purchased a CD of any artist. The last one I recall was Rhonda Vincent and the rage. A bluegrass CD with no steel guitar. Before that it had been 35 years since I purchased a Buck Owens album when they were still making records. I'm 63 now and not a member of anyones fan club. The music "business" has never been about the music and the artist. Unfortunately it's about who sells and the traditional artist have lost their supporters and the new country artist trying to produce it are having a real hard time getting in the top 100 let alone the top 40 because the old people keep clinging to the classic artist and won't give the new artist a chance. I see this all the time when a new singer are steel player comes along that is really good and you hear comments like "That's pretty good but no one will ever sing it like George or Merle or Ray." They hear a young steel player and say "That's pretty good but there will never be another Buddy, Lloyd or Papa John." Can't we see we are retarding our own growth. When a new pop or rock artist comes out everybody (young people) go insane. They don't keep dwelling on the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan are whatever. They are progressive. Old people are not. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 7:27 am
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They are progressive. Old people are not. |
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Steven Hicken Jr.
From: Leeds, United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 9:04 am
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David Mitchell wrote: |
Refering to what Herb Steiner said Walter Haynes told me at his house one day he had a video of him playing steel with Patsy Cline in a club. Somehow he never got around to finding it for me but I'm gonna get Cindy to find it someday. That would be interesting to hear what she had to say between songs.
Regarding the demise of traditional country music and the steel guitar I say it was me and you older folks and the listeners that loved it so much is who killed it.
Let me explain. I'll use myself as an example. It's probably been about 40 years since I paid to go see any singer in clubs, rodeos or concerts. It's been about 12 years now since I purchased a CD of any artist. The last one I recall was Rhonda Vincent and the rage. A bluegrass CD with no steel guitar. Before that it had been 35 years since I purchased a Buck Owens album when they were still making records. I'm 63 now and not a member of anyones fan club. The music "business" has never been about the music and the artist. Unfortunately it's about who sells and the traditional artist have lost their supporters and the new country artist trying to produce it are having a real hard time getting in the top 100 let alone the top 40 because the old people keep clinging to the classic artist and won't give the new artist a chance. I see this all the time when a new singer are steel player comes along that is really good and you hear comments like "That's pretty good but no one will ever sing it like George or Merle or Ray." They hear a young steel player and say "That's pretty good but there will never be another Buddy, Lloyd or Papa John." Can't we see we are retarding our own growth. When a new pop or rock artist comes out everybody (young people) go insane. They don't keep dwelling on the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan are whatever. They are progressive. Old people are not. |
Spot on David. _________________ 25 year old wannabe.
2015 Show Pro
2020 Hudson Hudsonator (Pedabro)
202X *Insert new guitar here*
https://www.stevenhickenjr.com/ |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 9:44 am
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David Mitchell wrote: |
give the new artist a chance. I see this all the time when a new singer are steel player comes along that is really good and you hear comments like "That's pretty good but no one will ever sing it like George or Merle or Ray." They hear a young steel player and say "That's pretty good but there will never be another Buddy, Lloyd or Papa John." |
I appreciate the depth of your analysis. There is truth and honesty in it. The names you mentioned are masters of their craft and established the standards that all others are measured against. True artists will reach for those standards with the same creative energy (not imitation), and a few may even surpass them. We can't control what sells, but we can maintain our values and be as honest about acknowledging mastery when we hear it as we are critical of those who fall a little short.
David Mitchell wrote: |
Can't we see we are retarding our own growth. When a new pop or rock artist comes out everybody (young people) go insane. They don't keep dwelling on the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan are whatever. They are progressive. Old people are not. |
Young people will establish their own pop icons just as previous generations did, and then move on to other more significant aspects of their lives. 30 years from now their kids will do the same thing. For musicians, this is not an option. Music is an endless source of information and inspiration.
Measuring a single genre's value by the achievements of one generation's icons is a subjective personal choice, but one that should motivate the musician to continue the genre's progress. It may be up to us to keep steel guitar alive in spite of whatever direction pop music takes. What a burden... |
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Godfrey Arthur
From: 3rd Rock
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 12:43 pm
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The bread and circuses phenomenon.
We have the same lament on the organ forums. You don't see organs being used in bands when they were all over the place.
And now, not too coincidentally, are all over country recordings these days more than they've ever been.
You ask yourself how can such a wonderful instrument like a psg not be enjoyed ?
Has less to do with tastes than it does with austerity. _________________ ShoBud The Pro 1
YES it's my REAL NAME!
Ezekiel 33:7 |
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David Mason
From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 1:25 pm
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Quantum physics is a branch that basically claims "Hey, we're just guessing, but it works okay sometimes!"*
Niels Bohr was a Big Cheeze in quantumland, he said:
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"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing it's opponents and making them see the light. But rather, because it's opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." |
I wonder if Niel liked steel guitar?
*(I'm glossing over the boring parts, here.) |
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David Mitchell
From: Tyler, Texas
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Posted 21 Jul 2017 6:01 pm
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Quote: |
Young people will establish their own pop icons just as previous generations did, and then move on to other more significant aspects of their lives. 30 years from now their kids will do the same thing. For musicians, this is not an option. Music is an endless source of information and inspiration.
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As for that last sentence I do receive inspiration with my steel guitar. I'm inspired playing it at home alone now and it's even more pleasurable now that I'm not depending on it for a living. For decades I turned down more work than I had time to accept. The only way steel guitar music is gonna die is when the musician stops playing his instrument forever. In that case it is truly dead. Dead to whoever quit playing. I long to hear the sound of Buddy Emmons playing old country stuff again on the radio so I just turn my amp on and start playing it myself at home. Next best thing. It might not move anyone else but it sure moves me. See there, problem solved! Steel is alive and well in my mind. |
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Bobby Boggs
From: Upstate SC.
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 7:19 am
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They hear a young steel player and say "That's pretty good but there will never be another Buddy, Lloyd or Papa John." Can't we see we are retarding our own growth. |
I don't think we, the old steelers are retarding the growth of the young players. Nobody cares what we think. We are such a small group in the grand scheme of things. That we couldn't retard the growth of any instrument, or style of music.
If a young player comes up with a style that producers or the powers that be like. He or she will be successful. Doesn't matter if every member of the steel guitar community hated his or her playing. We don't count. And that's ok.
I do agree that we the old timers perhaps have retarded our growth. Maybe I'm wrong. But I blame producers and the powers that be for most of that.(That's a hold other thread, I don't have time to get into.) However, Again I don't buy into the theory that we are holding the young steelers back. Even it we wanted to. We simply don't have that kind of power.
b. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 7:50 am
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Most old players don't want to tour. It's up to the young guys to keep the torch burning. An artist isn't going to feature steel on a record if there are no musicians willing to go on the road playing steel. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bob Ricker
From: Nashville Tn
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 8:13 am
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Just my 2 cents. It seems there are more steel players of all ages and music types, now days. I told someone when out the other night, I can't imagine where all these old Shobud's are coming from. I even see older and rare brands you never used to see 10-15 years ago. I think that shows interest and young people are finding them somewhere. |
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Herb Steiner
From: Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 10:56 am
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b0b wrote: |
Most old players don't want to tour. It's up to the young guys to keep the torch burning. |
That is the absolute truth. _________________ My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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George Piburn
From: The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 22 Jul 2017 12:17 pm Music styles cycle over and over.
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When I got the Steel Guitar Bug in 1980, Urban Cowboy , Broke the Back 0f Country Goes POP, Charlie Rich and such didn't use Steels at all.
At that Point Jeff Newman was drawing in guitar player converts by the hundreds, and Steel Guitar was Back in all of the Country Music. with few exceptions.
It is always the music being written played promoted, now of daze there is steel on nearly every country stage albit nowhere close to what we tend to consider Traditional Steel Guitar.
Hope this adds to this discussion. _________________ GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
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