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Topic: Swapping Push Pull |
Jack Devereux
From:
Brooklyn NY
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Posted 11 Feb 2017 11:34 am |
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Hey folks- I need some advice. I have a great push pull that I love and could totally play forever, but I kind of have the all pull curiosity bug. I've been playing steel for three or four years now, and have had the P/P for about two and a half. I'm starting to delve into C6 and kinda want to try the "full" C6 coledent, and have gotten comfortable enough on the instrument to start to want to experiment with some changes. I had a GFI when I started out, and got where I could find my way around underneath it pretty comfortably. I have really never touched the P/P and am pretty hesitant to start moving things around, just because of the more complex nature of the setup.
Seeing some Le Grandes and Mr Widgren's gorgeous red MCI over in the classifieds has me thinking. I guess my question for you is, am I nuts to let the push pull go? It sounds and plays great, I guess the grass is just always greener... |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 11 Feb 2017 11:42 am
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| Push Pulls are great, I've owned eight of them. But you can't go wrong with a fourteen-hole Legrande, and I think there's a few for sale in NC. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Feb 2017 11:43 am
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If you plan on tinkering, the all-pull is more tolerant of "not-quite-right".
I think I'd save up to have two guitars, rather than letting the Emmons go.
The all-pull will also play a bit smoother, but you won't necessarily like it as much.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Devereux
From:
Brooklyn NY
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Posted 11 Feb 2017 11:44 am
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| Lane, that makes a lot of sense. I'm gigging enough with the p/p now that I couldn't really be without a guitar for any length of time. And it sounds so damn good. I've just got the itch... |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2017 7:59 pm
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If you are ever in Florida, I have a mint,almost brand new LeGrande II D-10 that I would consider swapping.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Feb 2017 5:55 am
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DO NOT get rid of the P Pull.I repeat, if you like it, DO NOT get rid of it. You will regret it.
Grab a 2nd Steel , find a way.
Like many above, I own two P Pulls right now and a Legrande II . I will most likely part with one of the P Pulls soon as one of them has become a "child" and the other just a good neighbor ! The Legrande II is a "child". I love them equally.
I play the L II on gigs more than the P Pull, but I play the P Pull everyday !
Obviously the L II is much more user friendly for set up, changes, tinkering etc, for me, but others may not see it that way.
The L II plays similar to my P Pull , I don't have it set up to be a real soft player on purpose , BUT , when sitting behind the P Pull it's a different feel, a different touch, different music come out, I hear things differently, I can't explain it 
If you can locate a Legrande, a II or a III in a price range you can live with , you will have a Le"GRANDE life !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Feb 2017 9:09 am
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| Some Legrandes sound great, but others are just so-so. However, I think it's that way with all guitars, including push/pulls. There's enough push/pulls out there that there will probably always be some available for purchase at a reasonable price. And except for the wraparounds and a few early bolt-ons, which were very limited in number, I don't see their values escalating significantly. Most nowadays seem to sell in the $2500-$3500 range...which is right about where they were 10 years ago. |
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Mike Archer
From:
church hill tn
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Posted 12 Feb 2017 9:12 am Pp
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BETTER listen to Tony hear my friend
all pulls are everywhere and pps are not
so your c6 on your pp lacks what?
maybe I can help a little
just friendly advise from one who has lost a pp or two.....
mike
_________________
Mullen sd10
Nashville 400 amp
Tele/ fender deluxe |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Feb 2017 12:34 pm
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Right now, there are 3 (high dollar) wraparounds for sale on the forum, as well as at least 5 other D10's...
Jim M - $3500
Bill J - $3495
Brad G - $3000
Bill L - no price
Bob S - $4000
When (and if) the price ever gets up around 5 grand, I'll be selling mine, too. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Jack Devereux
From:
Brooklyn NY
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Posted 12 Feb 2017 5:57 pm
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| This all seems like really sound advice. The P/P sounds fantastic and has more changes than I know what to do with already, I just have the bug. Guess it's time to start saving up for another guitar. I don't know a whole lot about the Le Grandes, is there somewhere to go to read up on the differences between the different generations? Thanks! |
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George Seymour
From:
Notown, Vermont, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 3:23 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
Right now, there are 3 (high dollar) wraparounds for sale on the forum, as well as at least 5 other D10's...
Jim M - $3500
Bill J - $3495
Brad G - $3000
Bill L - no price
Bob S - $4000
When (and if) the price ever gets up around 5 grand, I'll be selling mine, too. |
My take, purely supply and demand. You young guys will have a glut of steels available in the next ten years. Will it affect me, sure...don't care. I've got four push pull, and I bet there's more like me out there, the older players sell off is beginning with not a enough young players to take our place... from what I'm seeing.
_________________
Old Emmons D-10's & Wrap Resound 65, Standel amps!
Old Gibson Mastertones |
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George Seymour
From:
Notown, Vermont, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 3:25 am
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I agree with the majority. Keep to your push/pull and get a second pedal steel. I sold my black bolt-on a few years ago for $2500 and now I'm kicking myself! I still have my '75 cut-tail, which sounds good, but there's just something special about those early Emmons pedal steels. |
amazing really, 1965 and 1966 Bolt On aluminum neck...
_________________
Old Emmons D-10's & Wrap Resound 65, Standel amps!
Old Gibson Mastertones |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Feb 2017 6:05 am
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| Jack Devereux wrote: |
| This all seems like really sound advice. The P/P sounds fantastic and has more changes than I know what to do with already, I just have the bug. Guess it's time to start saving up for another guitar. I don't know a whole lot about the Le Grandes, is there somewhere to go to read up on the differences between the different generations? Thanks! |
The "Legrandes" come in 3 flavors,
Legrande (Also Lashley Legrande)
Legrande II
Legrande III
each employ the same changer design
the Legrande uses 4 hole bell cranks
the L-II and L-III use 14 hole Bell cranks
which allow for more exact timing or softer feel or stiffer feel at set-up, depending on which BC holes you use. Very easy to adjust either lever or pedal travel.
The L-III also has the "Counter Force" which prevents effects of cabinet drop.
regrading the 4 hole vs 14 hole Bell cranks, obviously the 14 hole BC's are the preferred more MODERN era design, but don't let the 4 hole systems deter you, they are fine.
You may even find some L-II's or L-III's with some K Lever Bell Cranks that are 4 hole BC's from the factory. I added a 5th V K Lever to my L-II with 4 hole Bell Cranks. Plenty of action adjustment either direction.
You can't go wrong with any of the Legrandes, at the right price of course !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Michael Dulin
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 7:07 am swapping pp
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| Anyone who has a push pull should take it to their grave!MD |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 9:12 am
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Keep the PP regardless of what other guitar you choose.
Now I'm going to ruffle some feathers here. 
Two arguable statements, but based on my decades of experience with steel guitar (having owned many Emmonses including 5 LeGrandes and 2 of the vaunted SKHs), are these: 1) a LeGrande, regardless of vintage, will not sound like a PP, and 2) there is many a guitar being made today that is superior to the LeGrande in terms of pedal action, consistency of setup, and sound, subjectively.
I personally never had a LeGrande that didn't leave me disappointed in some way, though that's not to say that others that love and cherish their own LeGrande guitars are misguided. It's a subjective decision and personal choice. There's no all-pull guitar that can be compared to a PP... that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. The LeGrande should only be compared to other all-pull guitars, and I refer you back to my previous paragraph.
I apologize in advance for any toes I've trod upon. It's just MHO.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
Last edited by Herb Steiner on 14 Feb 2017 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 14 Feb 2017 10:01 am
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| Quote: |
| Keep the PP regardless of what other guitar you choose. |
This is IHMO some sage advice from the Herbster.
My steel guitar odyssey began with a PP. Over the course of the next forty years I had many great all-pull guitars, each with their own positives. But the PP sound was forever to be "the sound in my head" and as such, all of those great all-pull guitars fell short in the sound department in some minuscule way or another. Granted, in hearing those different guitars in the context of full mixes in tracks I have recorded, the perceived differences might be negligible to most. Even me. But to me what's important about a steel, or anything in a rig for that matter, is how it makes you feel when you play.
So then Jack, if you are one with your PP like it sounds like you are, then I would suggest you look for another means to fund your all-pull curiosity. Lest that PP become "the one that got away".
Will I always play a PP exclusively until I die? Maybe, maybe not. Like many, I enjoy experimenting. Will I always have a PP close at hand? You bet!
My two cents...
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Indiana, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 5:30 am
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A push-pull is my go-to steel and has been for some time. I sold all my all-pulls because I just plain wasn't using them. That included several Zums, LeGrandes, Sho-Buds and a few others. Looking back, I sometimes think maybe I should have kept one but that's how it goes.
I think every steel player should have two steels, at least. One by the door ready for playing out and another set up in the house for practice. Of those two, one should be a push-pull.
This is important: I have found that almost every push-pull I've gotten has been out of adjustment. Some were just plain terrible. A push-pull has to be adjusted right and there are not a whole lot of people who know how to do that.
Found a '69 basket-case D10 a couple of weeks ago. A player had stripped the undercarriage and thrown all the parts in a box. Then he apparently played it as a double neck stand-up steel. What a mess. But the good news is Mike Cass is restoring it now. |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 20 Feb 2017 6:05 am
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I'd say keep the p/p if you can, even you want to try some other guitars. I've had a bunch of all pull guitars, and 5 different p/ps, two of which I still own.
When I play a p/p, besides great tone, I just like the tactile response and feedback it provides as a player. For me, a good p/p just feels alive in your hands in a way none of my all pull guitars every have. It's THAT characteristic that brought me full circle back to p/ps after a lot of years playing all pull guitars. |
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