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Topic: Tricone -- gaskets? |
Former Member
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 5:37 am |
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Lee,
I'm with you all the way. How do you quantify something so objective as to tone.
When I called Mark the other day, and reminded him of that, he laughed and I feel maybe was just answering my many questions as simply as possible when we first talked a few months ago. He sticks by the statement that gaskets do make a cone operate more efficiently. This is the repeated term, and maybe not as subjective as "tone".
I'm not a mechanic and he is, so more than anything I find the concept interesting and maybe unknown to the majority of tricone players and luthiers. I mean he is definitely considered one of the best in this niche field. |
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Lee Cecil
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2017 9:15 am
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| You are correct. Everything I've ever heard about him leads me to believe he is one of the very best at what he does. |
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Peter Garellick
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2017 7:23 pm
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Aloha all,
Well I just made my own cardboard gasket for my 1927 style 1 square neck. I would say that there is noticeably more volume than before! I don't think the overall tone changed much, but it is louder.
I pulled out the wood sound well piece and traced around that, then cut the cardboard with an exacto knife. I guess that would be impossible with the ones starting around #200 with the built-in metal sound well, but you could figure it out.
Anyway, here's a pic of my "handiwork."
Thanks to all the forum members for sharing your knowledge and experience on this topic.
Mahalo, Peter
 [/img][/url] |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2017 5:53 am
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There has been much debate over the years as to whether there were gaskets or not under the cones of old Nationals. Without a time machine we may never know all the facts.
In my opinion there were gaskets at times on some models or there was a belief among repair circles that they were needed.
To fuel the fire I have a few examples:
My '31 tricone style 1 had these hard paper gaskets uncer the cones when I opened it up. Here's a shot of some fragments, note they were (hide) glued in place.
My '28 round neck had no sign of gaskets under the cones but obviously had a gasket to keep the cover plate from rattling.
As for single cones with felt gaskets:
My '33 Duolian (rolled f holes, mahogany neck, was rescued from the attic of the original owner in the Pa. coal region. It has the (what I believe to be) the origional green felt gasket in the well. It is the strongest, meatiest single cone I have ever had.
My '30 Style 0, (early steel body version) has glue residue but no gasket when I got it.
My '31 Style N had no gasket or sign of residue.
By '37 or so none of my Triolians or Duolians had any sign of gasket or glue in the well.
'37 Triolian:
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
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Posted 27 Apr 2017 2:55 pm
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Well, today was string-change-and-general-maintenance day for my '28 Style One, so once I had it apart I made 3 gaskets out of what I'd call light card stock. Just 3 donuts to fit around the holes in the well and give a good seat for the cones. It MIGHT be a little louder, but new strings generally are so I can't say for sure. But tone-wise I do hear a difference. Even with the new phosphor bronze strings it sounds less "jangley" and more full-bodied, and I quite like it. Now I will have to wait and see how it sounds once the strings have settled down a bit.
On the physics side of the question, I wonder how much this has to do with just eliminating the metal to metal contact between the cones and the well.
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David K |
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Peter Garellick
From:
California, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2017 8:56 pm
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I'm guessing there is just a better seal, which makes the cones resonate more evenly. I can see how without any gasket, there would be more areas of incomplete contact.
By the way I used a heavier material, a fairly thin cardboard. I'll try a lighter poster-board type card stock and see how that compares.
Peter |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2017 5:36 am
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To ensure a tight seal without gaskets I use an old window glass. It's flat and with light pressure in the center of the cone you can see from the opposite side if there is contact all the way around.
You can scuff the cone up lightly on the glass by rubbing it across a sheet of 200 -400 sandpaper and checking for the spots that didn't get shiny. Tweak the cone carefully to get a good seal.
A tip I got from (the late great) Don Young at National Resophonics about getting a good seal at the peak of a single cone model where the biscuit bridge seats is to lightly sand around the rim around of "the volcano crater" in a similar way to get a flat surface and use a light bead of white glue to seal. And don't over-tighten the screw in the center. ( the early single cone Nationals had 4 brads holding the cone in place, the single screw in the center is an easier and more delicate way to attach the cone.)
With all the surface area of 3 cones plus the contact points of the bridge "Tee" piece there are a lot of places where a buzz can originate.
Here is an early single cone model with the holes where the brads were used to hold the biscuit bridge in place at the crater of the "volcano".
And a single cone model with a simple screw i the center to hold the biscuit in place (underside).
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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