Anyone use a universal ten

Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

I tried a 12 string for awhile and decided to go back to a ten. However not having the ninth never bothered me. I actually liked the sound I got dropping the E. So I've decided to drop my ninth on my justice 10. My question. Do I tune my 10th to E or G sharp. If I tune it to E I'll need to raise it to A. A long pull. Guess the gauge of string would matter a lot. Also is it going to make the pedal action to stiff. I had actually thought of tuning it to G sharp and lowering it to E. Not sure this would work. I'm sure tuning it to G sharp would. I'm sure I'm not the first person to consider this. Thought some of you might have some input.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

Some have published 10 string copeds... some put an E on s10... others a G#. If I were doing it, I would use a G# and preserve the B6 uni functionality that far down. Putting an E makes it more like an extended E9... .

I don't recall anyone raising or lowering that far.

I think one forumite also gets rid of s7 to get the extra lower strings.... I believe he is the manufacturer of BMI.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I am totally set with my 12 string Universal but if I were looking to change, the 10 string uni ideas have intrigued me for years.

As is fairly common on 12 string universals, I used to raise my 9th string B to D. Exacerbated by having a different, frequently used change on that same lever, the B string failed far more than I wanted so I got rid of the change (and I've been fine with that for years).
Point is, that E > A is a tall order. A snaller gauge string will take some stress off but will result in a slack E. A fatter string will yield a pretty stressful 5 half-step change that I predict will yield premature string failure.
Most certainly I am describing 'what I would think would happen'. In a perfect world, you go ahead and try it and report back. I'd love to know what you find.

Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

I'm not sure I want to try. I was hoping to find someone that had lol. When I first started playing steel I was going to college in Nashville. I took lessons from jimmie crawford and hung out at his shop a lot. We discussed this a couple of times. The reason he didn't build a 12 he didn't feel they sound as good. I'm not trying to open a can of worms at all. They do sound different. But you can sit identical guitars next to each other and there's a difference. You can't say Jeff newman didn't sound great. At any rate some ideas on ten string tuning seem to make sense to me. I don't think I'm ready to lose my seventh string yet but I'm am the ninth. You've heard jimmie tune his tenth pedal down to A a lot. He even did it while he was playing. So I'm definitely going to tune my tenth to G sharp. Possibly E but I'm afraid to pull it to A I would have to use to light a string. Plus making pedal action to stiff

Patrick Ickes · From: Upper Lake, CA USA

I bought a Sierra S-10 4x5 a while back, and it has room for 7 pedals. I had to make longer legs and rods, so I made 7 rods....just in case. I also have to change the copedant from Day/Hughey to Emmons. Maybe.
I think Dan Burham is the BMI person. They have a JET tuning that I had forgotten about.
My ZB D-10s builder played a type of universal, but I thought it was 12 string.
I'll have to revisit the BMI site and watch this thread.
Patrick

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Sort of...
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/var/s10tt-10.html

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have a Sho-Bud Pro-1 S10 converted to a S10U with 7x5, by Mars Music, Jeff Suratt.
It is a Newman E9/B6 setup, without the bottom 2 strings.

Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

Sounds like a great idea Pete

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Hi Jeff, I changed my S10s to an Ext E9 (not uni), it really opened up the bottom end and completed the chords...here's what I ended up with 25 years ago..still using it for any kind of music....Larry Very Happy

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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have an early Zum SD-10 with a universal tuning (six pedals, five knees) which is very interesting.

Unfortunately, although it has a 'Day' set-up (which I play), the Es are lowered with the RKL and the Bs are lowered on LKL.

That's too far away from my comfort zone so it never gets played and I'm about to sell it. I can't now recall exactly how the extra pedals work but they certainly replicate the 5,6,7th pedals on C6th.

Watch out for it soon in the 'for sale' section.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

Jeff, check this one out. I've thought about trying this one.

http://b0b.com/tunings/kappen.htm

Tony

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

I have a GFI Ultra keyless S-10 tuned that way with G# on 10. I have a 4th pedal that lowers it to E with no problem,and lowers string 7 F# to E. That gives a bit of an organic chorus effect and works great for rock and blues tunes. If there is only one guitar player in a 4 piece band,it is good for rhythm and backup when he takes a solo. In B6 mode it is like the C6 F string and you can apply it to get a nice low voiced maj 7 and build on that.
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Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Fred Justice made me what I call a U-10. It's a a Jeff Newman U-12 setup without strings 11&12. This guitar has 5 pedals and 6 knee levers on a S10 body. No C pedal but a vertical that raises string 4 E to F# and no Boo Wha pedal.

Still love my U-12 guitars but this 10 string is very nice. All of the E9 and most of the B6 minus the 2 lowest strings.

John Goux · From: California, USA

I started on 10 string E9, and am adjusting to 12 string ext E9. I find I enjoy the low G# string, raised to A with the B to C# pull above it. It is an octave below the standard pedals down licks and very natural. The low E is wonderful as well.

So how to simplify this with fewer strings?
String 9 can be replaced by B to D pull. (This would be a great 11 string coped)

Another down to 10 strings, omit strings 9 and string 2 from E9, and add low E and G# in bottom. You still get your medodies on the high strings(as in C6, albeit without the easy cascading 3rds in E9), but you gain low rhythm and melodies at the bottom.
This tuning would be:
Low to high
E G# B E F# G# B E G# F# with standards Emmons and Uni type modifiers.

And advantage, strummable chords with no dissonant 2nd string. You gain a lever getting rid of string 2, to be used elsewhere.

Now if a G# will go down to a low E, that would be a great ext 10 string. What guage string do you use for that?
John

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

For Larry Allen - I see that to get your D string lower you take the E flat lower, give it a half stop at E flat, and then your fully engaged lever goes down to D to get all the stuff the 9th string D does.

However the E flat knee lever is such a "basic" and essential change, isn't it somewhat distracting to have a half stop on that change?

Just wondering .... your tuning looks intriguing
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Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

Lots of interesting suggestions. I've considered doing away with the 9th. I'm actually for sure doing this. I'm also considering doing away with seven. I've got my guitar tuned that way now and strongly considering it. That would give me G sharp and E on the bottom. Getting F sharp on the sixth. Also considered raising E a whole. To me losing nine is a given. The short time I had a12 I liked a lot of things better. LEN. You get the lo D lowering E or raising

Jeff.

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

Haven't had the 9th string in decades, but I wouldn't ever give up the 7th. Just me... I find it very useful.

Jeff Hogsten · From: Flatwoods Ky USA

Your right Bruce. I just retuned my guitar to see what I could do. I actually like some sounds I'm getting. I love the lo E. Guess you have to give up some to gain another

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Richard.....the E lower RKL is actually quite easy as I always used it to get an Eb, now also the D..I can run the bass line from E down to A using RKL, then RKR to C#/C then Pedal A to Bb/A....I also have Pedal 6 give me the upper Ds with E on the bass....lots of full fat chords...Larry Smile

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Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

I use an E9/B6 tuning minus the two bass strings.
G# B E F# G# B E G# D F# I pull the low B to D on a KL a la Uni setup. I also pull the 10th string to A with 3 and 6. I use the A6th side of the E9th tuning to get my "6th stuff" using the standard E9th KL's to get the changes. Works absolutely great and I would never go back to a so-called Nashville E9th tuning/setup again.
PRR

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I just play a real simple set up. The "KISS" method. You know keep it short & simple! Pedals are Emmons but KL'ers, well don't what you'd call that. Ha! I've had guitars and guitars over the years with about everything you could put on one. I've studied Lloyd Green for years and Hughey also. Then it dawned on me one night that Lloyd only used 3 & 4 w/bar slants, at times. So, even though being a Hughey man, I watched LG and saw it was his style & master touch doing the classic intros, etc. By using 3 & 4, it forces a player to be more focused on getting that special delivery or touch. But anyway, here's my basic KL set up also. RKL raises E's, RKR lowers E's, LKL lowers #6 G# to a G and LKR lowers #2 D# to a D. If I use a VKL, it'll lower #10 B to a A note. If I need a certain lick or something then I'll just put it on the guitar but normally I use what's posted here. Simple mind does simple things! That's me. Ha!

Lyle Dent · From: Little Rock ,Arkansas

Take Zane Becks,Zane Kings or Dan Burnhams Jet 10 and all work well on a S-10. They have all you need for any C6 or E9. I'm sure Don would build you a guitar with Zanes tuning in 10 stringer or change an older BMI. I think Dan Rollins (Steelers Choice) has his S-10 Uni tuning on a previous thread.
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