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Topic: "working" for free |
Barry Blackwood
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 9:20 am |
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| In an area where any playing opportunities are scarce, sure, you can decide to not play for free. No public appearances for you. If you're happy with that, great! |
I am currently happy with that..  |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 9:45 am
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No, I'm not totally mercenary professional hard-ass... I sometimes play gratis simply because I want to have fun.
I've recently volunteered to be a weekly "guest artist" with a local band, for several reasons; the pickers are excellent, I live about 4 miles from the club, more than half the band are old friends of mine, and it's a tip jar happy hour gig 5-7 every Tuesday.
I told the bandleader (old pal) that he didn't have to pay me unless he felt it was in the budget, because on a tip-jar gig I didn't want to dilute the full-time band members' bucks, some of whom are much less fortunate and need the bucks more than I.
Mostly it's because I want to play with these particular players to keep my chops up and play the great songs.  Still, the bandleader tosses me 50 or so when the crowd has been generous, which they usually are... And I get a bar tab and a dinner. 
What I'm NOT doing, importantly, is taking money from some other steel player (or musician). In fact, I'm HELPING the other players make more bucks by adding to the band sound. So it's win-win all around.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Karl Paulsen
From:
Chicago
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Posted 24 Jan 2017 3:33 pm
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It's a tough thing to nail down, but I like to at least consider whether playing free is going to affect the way other local musicians are compensated. Some of us have day jobs or are retired and we don't need the money, but it is worth pondering whether playing free is training club owners and promoters to expect free music.
That sort of thing can hit actual working musicians hard. I recall a teacher saying -with some hyperbole- that a certain band that worked for nearly nothing hand single-handedly driven down the price of Country music in the area.
In the OP's situation, I'd charge expenses plus a few bucks. Just enough that the musician properly values your time, but not so much that it will affect their bottom line. One thing I've found true everywhere, people rarely value what they don't pay for or don't work for. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 25 Jan 2017 2:11 am
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I recently accepted a few gigs with a guy starting a new band. He was paying $100 for a 3 hr gig. Now this is not about me getting paid but follows the same course.
At the time I had no idea that the guy and his Bass player friend were playing for FREE, typical bands were getting paid $500 for the evening dance. I learned he cut a deal, $300 . I had always wondered how he got into a few dance halls so quickly, seeing they are booked 6 months to a year in advance.
We played a few dances then all of a sudden two of the dance hall owners started telling HIM ( band leader ) what to do. You must have a guest set, a sit in keyboard player etc.. It was like it was their band and they started dictating the ground rules when we played. Do what I want or you get no gig.
The last gig I played with this band he easily had 10 or 12 guests come up and sing. It took up just about the whole night. Sadly,I had a few friends come out to visit me and they got up and left. I don't blame them.
The band leader told me that the club owner insisted he have guest singers or we couldn't player there anymore.I said fine by me and quit on the spot. This is not what I do.
Then I learned that the reason he got gigs at $300 right away is that the dance hall owners called and cancelled other bands , said they had double booked. They were saving $200 each night .
So, he and the Bass player played for free, I got paid but other bands lost their gigs.
No way do I want any part of that.
Now he has NO gigs anywhere as it all caught up with him. Plus, me, the Tele picker and the drummer all quit , even at $100 each !
I also had considered him a mild friend, now I don't consider him at all. I won't ever discuss it with him as it's not my business what he does,but I think he knows not to call me anymore as well for any gigs.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 25 Jan 2017 6:32 am
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| Karl Paulsen wrote: |
| It's a tough thing to nail down, but I like to at least consider whether playing free is going to affect the way other local musicians are compensated....One thing I've found true everywhere, people rarely value what they don't pay for or don't work for. |
I also like what Herb Steiner wrote here:
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
Just as an aside about benefits... of which I've played many, some paid, others with the promoter's expectation that the band plays "gratis."
How many times have you found out that the room/bar/club is getting paid for its space, the bartenders are getting paid, the waitresses are getting paid, the bar receipts are kept by the club, and in fact, the ONLY people NOT getting paid are the musicians?
Without whom there wouldn't be anyone showing up for the benefit in the first place.
If I have a personal involvement with the event, like I know the recipient or organization, no problem. I want to contribute my skill and also $$. But if the event is something to which I'm not connected and money is changing hands to those servicing the event, I'd expect my hands to be among those being graced with pay. I value my time, my equipment, my skill, and my effort. |
These are the criteria I use for these kinds of situations. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2017 6:51 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
I recently accepted a few gigs with a guy starting a new band. He was paying $100 for a 3 hr gig. Now this is not about me getting paid but follows the same course.
At the time I had no idea that the guy and his Bass player friend were playing for FREE, typical bands were getting paid $500 for the evening dance. I learned he cut a deal, $300 . I had always wondered how he got into a few dance halls so quickly, seeing they are booked 6 months to a year in advance.
We played a few dances then all of a sudden two of the dance hall owners started telling HIM ( band leader ) what to do. You must have a guest set, a sit in keyboard player etc.. It was like it was their band and they started dictating the ground rules when we played. Do what I want or you get no gig.
The last gig I played with this band he easily had 10 or 12 guests come up and sing. It took up just about the whole night. Sadly,I had a few friends come out to visit me and they got up and left. I don't blame them.
The band leader told me that the club owner insisted he have guest singers or we couldn't player there anymore.I said fine by me and quit on the spot. This is not what I do.
Then I learned that the reason he got gigs at $300 right away is that the dance hall owners called and cancelled other bands , said they had double booked. They were saving $200 each night .
So, he and the Bass player played for free, I got paid but other bands lost their gigs.
No way do I want any part of that.
Now he has NO gigs anywhere as it all caught up with him. Plus, me, the Tele picker and the drummer all quit , even at $100 each !
I also had considered him a mild friend, now I don't consider him at all. I won't ever discuss it with him as it's not my business what he does,but I think he knows not to call me anymore as well for any gigs. |
I thought the lack of integrity & backstabbing was bad in Tampa bay, but this is worse!
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 26 Jan 2017 2:45 am
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| Rich Upright wrote: |
I thought the lack of integrity & backstabbing was bad in Tampa bay, but this is worse! |
Don't worry, it's not THAT bad, it's only ONE guy...and it caught up with him pronto.
He actually called me last night to play this weekend . Good news, I was already booked so didn't have to make up a story. Short answer was still..NO
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 26 Jan 2017 4:31 pm
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The question is:
What does the person do with the money they saved by not paying you?
If you can think about that for any length of time and not get at least a little mad you are a better man than me.
Example:
Let’s say that the person went to the movies and bought the $15 refill popcorn and soda.
It really means I am giving them my movie tickets, popcorn and soda.
Thanking them for the privilege is not the first thing that comes to my mind! |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 26 Jan 2017 8:26 pm
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Most of us know when something is on the level and when it isn't.Got an invite a month or so ago to "audition" for a fairly well-known hobby band.Great demo,great website,tight videos and roughly one gig a month.I knew they were rehearsing to stay tight,and remembering the old folk wisdom about how if you have non-musical day jobs(they did)and you have time to practice the setlist you're not gigging enough. And if your players are bragging on Facebook about the hot gigs they have with other bands,something's rotten in more places than Denmark.
So I gave the bandleader the name of a guy I know who's made out of money,plays good steel,loves to make all the jam nights,and sits in free for whole weekends.Haven't heard any more about it |
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