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Post new topic Msa 5x4 E9 copedent 1974?
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Author Topic:  Msa 5x4 E9 copedent 1974?
Jordan Beyer


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 8 Jan 2017 7:14 pm     Reply with quote

I was going through some old papers and found the original MSA usuers manual that goes to my guitar. And I found something that I always wondered about but didn't know why
To start, my guitar is a 5x4 and originally I thought it was an old C6 neck that someone transferred to E9. And for all this time I really wasn't for sure what I wanted to do with the extra pedals. Now if you look at the chart below you can see what they had intened. I can see the forth pedal but what I don't understand is the 5th. Just raising the sixth string half a tone and not with the third? Is there something useful to have that all alone and to pick the unraised third string? I really don't see what there idea was behind this. Any info will help
Thanks Jordan
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Jeff Harbour


From:
Western Ohio, USA
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:15 am     Reply with quote

Well, it gives you an augmented chord in the open position. Also, if the original owner was a two-footer, then that would give you a major 7th when used with Pedal 1. But, both of those would have very limited usefulness. Otherwise, you are right that it doesn't make much sense unless I'm missing something.
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Jeff Harbour


From:
Western Ohio, USA
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:19 am     Reply with quote

After a second look, I am betting that the original owner did use two feet on the pedals due to Pedal 4. That change is almost always on a lever so that it can be used with the A & B Pedals (1 & 2).
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 6:03 am     Reply with quote

I know that's not how I'd do it.
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Tom Gorr


From:
Three Hills, Alberta
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 9:55 am     Reply with quote

If you have the interest in Universal, you could get 80 percent there with a 5x4.

I have a 5x5 Uni coped that I seriously enjoyed. Very easy to play.

Here is a starting suggestion with 5x4.

A B P6 P5 P8/B+

E+ P7..... E++ E-


Lots of ways to skin the UniKitty.
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Jordan Beyer


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 2:33 pm     Reply with quote

My guitar is only a 10 string. This is the Msa factory copedent that were put on the e9 5x4. This is the original manual. So I'm guessing Reese had something to do with the copedent and to make it useful? Or is it just to sell more with the extra pedals?
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Tom Gorr


From:
Three Hills, Alberta
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 2:54 pm     Reply with quote

Oh... ten stringer. There are some 10 string Uni ideas floating around. The top 10 strings of a Uni get you most basic Texas Swing but Jazz really relies on s11...so my coped suggestion still gets you that far but truncated on bottom strings.

Alternatively, you have the easy ability to fill out a great E9 coped by adding the Franklin Pedal, and there is surely another floor pedal that would be useful, and I am sure someone has an idea for it.

If the guitar has decent tone and sustain and you are in no rush to buy and try other guitars that could be unsatisfying... I would solicit ideas on how to build your coped out.

Msa is a very good guitar and remains about the best bang for the buck out there. It is by far the most comfortable pedal shape in the biz IMO. You can play barefoot without pain. I have two of them and my MSA Uni on balance is one of my favorite guitars.


Last edited by Tom Gorr on 9 Jan 2017 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bob Carlucci


From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:09 pm     Reply with quote

that was the standard MSA 5&4 setup.. Personally I will never understand the intent, but as a young man that knew nothing about steels at the time, I had it changed to more usable pulls in short order with a couple of Allen wrenches.... bob
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Larry Bell


From:
Englewood, Florida
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 3:23 pm     Reply with quote

In 1974 I had a single 10 MSA with 5 x 4. It was my first guitar and I had enough trouble figuring out what three pedals and three or four levers did. Reece told me it was set up that way to be able to accommodate either C6 (popular tuning in Texas) or E9. They could mass produce them and then rod them and do setup to accommodate either tuning. Most were set up E9. I don't recall using the 4th or 5th pedal. Usually didn't even attach the pedal rods. The 6th raised alone is weird; I don't recall it but it could have been there and I never used it. Only had that guitar a year; went to 12 strings in '75.
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My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
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Tom Gorr


From:
Three Hills, Alberta
Post Posted 9 Jan 2017 8:57 pm     Reply with quote

That makes sense for sure.

For the cost of two pedals and a few pieces of hardware, a person could keep their guitar if they want to go to C6.

The way it should be. .. preserves the value of the instrument.
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Donny Hinson


From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post Posted 10 Jan 2017 2:06 pm     Reply with quote

Jeff Harbour wrote:
Well, it gives you an augmented chord in the open position.


Uhh...I'm kinda dumb when it comes to theory, but did you mean a sus4?
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Ernie Pollock


From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
Post Posted 11 Jan 2017 12:13 pm     My Guitar is probably around the same year Reply with quote

[url]


I have 5 & 5 on this one, its tuned E9th down to the 9th string & I put a low E on the bottom. I have it set up as kind of a poor mans Universal. I can get a lot of the old C6 [for me its B6] song on it, & about all I would ever need on the E9th side. I love the 10th string E bass string, I use a .060 for that E, then it is lowered down to Eb & D with a lever. I did play universal 12's for about 35 years, but decided to go a different route with a 10 string steel, for some reason 10 string steels just sound better to my ear than the 12 stringers did, I know that sounds nutty, which it probably is, but hell thats what we steel player do to torture ourselves. Oh, thats not an aluminum neck, just doctored up to look like it is & fooled me!! I am on
about my 5th year with this guitar.

Ernie Pollock Smile 301-264-4172 [/url]
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Jeff Harbour


From:
Western Ohio, USA
Post Posted 12 Jan 2017 5:44 am     Reply with quote

Donny Hinson wrote:
Jeff Harbour wrote:
Well, it gives you an augmented chord in the open position.


Uhh...I'm kinda dumb when it comes to theory, but did you mean a sus4?


Oops! Got my strings mixed up. He said string 6, but for some reason I pictured in my mind that 6 was the B string. That makes the pedal even more strange.
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Jerry Hayes


From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
Post Posted 13 Jan 2017 9:26 am     Reply with quote

I had that change on my old ShoBud S-12 for awhile but I raised the 5th string along with it. It gave you an Amaj7 in the open position. One nice move was when you'd want a nice sounding IV to V change you'd just press the pedal and then apply the knee lever which lowered your 5th B string a half and then let off of everything...

I also used it in instrumentals like "Bud's Bounce" so you could do the Bud Isaacs thing of having both strings on one pedal and you wouldn't be using the 3rd string and would save some wear and tear on it as the 3rd always breaks more often than the others...

I have two steels right now, one is a 12 string Marlen with 4 & 4 and a BMI S-12 with 8 & 5... Here's the copedants on both of them. On the BMI the 7th and 8th pedals are applied with the right foot.......JH in Va.


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