Equalizer as solution?

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

I've never used a graphic equalizer, but I'm looking for help from those who have.
My Kline has a single coil pickup; bit of buzz, but it's the brightness that's my primary concern.
On the other end, my MSA (with Tone Aligner pickup) can be dull sounding on the lower strings.
I naturally play around with amp tone controls, but that isn't enough.
I've tried Brad Sarno's Black Box and Freeloader, and while they do indeed help with my issues, the real problem is that I always run my steel(s) through some dirt pedals, and as Brad's devices are (like) buffers, there are problems.
Do those of you who use EQs feel that perhaps my solution might be a graphic equalizer? Do they work well with dirt pedals? Would a stomp box pedal do the job well enough (rack units are not practical for me)?
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

An EQ should be exactly what you are looking for, and the better stomp boxes should be perfectly adequate, although the Behringer and Danelectro will likely be too noisy.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Knew you'd step up to the plate, Lane - thanks.
I'd go with at least a Maxon 10 band, or Empress Para EQ, or something of better quality.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

I've used a Boss GE-7 for years. It sits on a box next to my seat along with the Boss Delay-Reverb effect on a small pedal board. For certain gigs, I'll take a different pedal board with those two plus a Tube Screamer and Phaser pedal.

The Boss can shape the tone however you want it and it has a volume fader. I usually set the amp flat and run the two low frequency faders 2/3s up. I lower the mids and bump up the two highs according to what amp and guitar I'm using.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I use the Boss GE-7 in the effects loop on my Peavey LA-400 with a 12 inch BW speaker.
I play a U-12 and if you want to hear Boo-Wha pedal or the 11th and 12th string project you have to bump up the first 2 bands.

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

GE-7 with the Monte Allums mod will do exactly what you want. I have one and it works.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress)

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

GE-7 with the Monte Allums mod will do exactly what you want. I have one and it works.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress)

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Some folks are using the Empress Para EQ as a preamp with good results .... It's a clean sounding unit that won't drive you crazy with noise .... If your lower strings are "dull" sounding as you say, since you have the Tone Aligner Pickup, have you tried raising the pole pieces on the pickup on the lower strings ? ..Jim

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, gents.

Paul: who is Monte Allums and do you know how I might contact him? Curious.

James: I was actually seriously considering the Empress unit - I have a couple of their pedals, and they are top shelf. (The father of the originator of Empress is a Canadian steel guitarist).
The Kline is a bit bright, and the MSA can be dull, but I had a very nice talk with Bob Hoffnar, who was very generous with his time and knowledge. It may be I simply have to adjust to each steel, which has its own strengths and flaws, rather than constantly go on pilgrimage for the ultimate tone.
I may still try an EQ just to see what it does or doesn't do.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

See that Jim...everything I told you about the Empress months ago is true! Winking

A view from inside my steel seat > > >

Pete Woronowski · From: Saskatchewan, Canada

I'm not saying an EQ won't help but have you tried a different brand of strings or re-adjusted your pickup height?
_________________
Mullen Royal Precision

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

I have indeed adjusted the pole pieces on the ToneAligner pickup (on my MSA). Once again, Bob Hoffnar was helpful with that.
I haven't messed with the Kline's pickup - not even sure there's much I can do - and aside from the brightness (well, and single coil hum), the Kline sounds superb.

Jay: Do you find that with the Para EQ you can smooth out some "ice" or brighten the lower strings without compromising the overall tone? With the Kline, I can indeed turn down the treble (or turn it up with the MSA), but naturally that changes the overall tone.
The Sarno Freeloader would be just about right IF I didn't need my dirt pedals.
Steve at Empress said that their EQ works with dirt, no problem. Same for you?
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Jay,
YA MON !!!.....Empress is very cool ... I overspent for Christmas this year and now I'm paying for it ...I want to get a power amp or two ( unless you are going to start building a 2 channel version ) from you ... Brad S. is happy with his ...and you are the builder , so that P.amp sounds like a win win to me ....

BTW ...I never doubted you for a second when you told me about the Empress !!....I trust your ears !! ...Jim

Daniel,
"Bright" is a very easy fix ...Taking a steel and trying to make it brighter to sound good is a tough one ... The brightness of the Kline is what I like about it ...It cut's like a knife !!..Makes those LOUD guitar players look over at you with a scowl !!!.....I LOVE that , being a keyboard player by trade ...A good EQ like the Empress will surely help ....and add a few other EQ changes that you will enjoy ....Jim

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Just remember that a fully parametric EQ is almost an abstraction: I believe the Empress has adjustable Q (the width of the bands affected), so you'll have a wide range of options, and it can get wacky
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Let me throw in an alternative to all that "noisy and distorting" electronics... Smile

- For brighter/sharper tone: move the PU a little closer to the bridge/changer.
- For warmer/rounder tone: move the PU a little away from the bridge/changer.

......can't do that on a PSG...?
Pity ... I've played a Dekley with movable PU for two decades ... +/- 1/3" makes quite a difference ... beats all eq circuits IMO. Just wish all PSG came with that option.
I've seen/test-played a Jackson with movable PU, so technically no problem.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Sliding pickups ....I like that idea !!....Works for me ...Room for 2 pickups and a multi way switch with series and parallel wiring included as well as split single and dual coil action !!.... ( wake up Jim , wake up ) ...LOL ...

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Well, I can't move my pickups, so that's out.
As I say, the Freeloader is a great option, if only I just played straight steel.

James: what do you feel is an easy fix to reduce brightness/ice - just turn down the treble on the amp?
Certainly helps, though I don't like losing the Kline's clarity on the lower strings in the process.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Daniel ,
I meant with an external EQ .... You can pinpoint the frequency that you want to change and narrow the Q which is basically do you want to change that frequency specifically, or do you want to Widen the Q to cover even more frequencies .... It's more of a surgical tool rather than a broad change of frequency as you would have with a treble control on an amp ..The controls on an amp ( Bass, mid, treble ) are all set to a certain frequency ....When you turn them up or down , that one frequency is being adjusted over the entire range of sound coming from that amp. ....With a decent EQ unit , you have your choice of freqencies and how much you want to boost or cut said frequency(s)and how wide you want this boost or cut of surrounding freqencies to be involved ..You can get pretty drastic with a good EQ unit where as a lot of amps controls are barely noticeable ... Jim

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I'll let a secret out of the bag, here. The old DOD FX40 six band and FX40B seven-band graphic EQ's munch the stock Boss pedals. The Boss has a real "transistory" sound if you're using it to boost the highs. And DOD was using the kind of components in their 1980's pedals that are now offered as upgrades by the pedal repair/improvement fellows. The pedal world is real whacky, but just in principle it doesn't make sense to me to buy something you KNOW is inferior just to get it upgraded; might as well throw for the good stuff to start. New, that's a Keeley, there are a lot of "improved" Bosses out there too. There are some nice old Ibanez's, the MXR's are a bit cleaner than the Boss.

Nowadays, though, what I mostly see them used for is as one component in a particular programmed channel, often ONLY feeding an overdrive or after an overdrive, and then switched in and out with that alone. The reason is that you are inserting six or seven more parallel preamps into your chain and no matter what you do, more preamps equals more noise. IF there's a way to adjust what needs to be changed that doesn't mean "more" it'll be preferred. Speaker choice is HUGE, more important than a lot of people notice.

Oh - the old DOD's used to go for $25 on Ebay all day, now they run $40 - $60. They use a 1/8" input for outside power so you have to get one of those $3 1 Spot adaptors.

P.S.(The old DOD FX80B stomp compressors are way-fine too, munch a DynaComp and hold up to a Keeley!)

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, David.
I'd certainly agree - if an "improved"/tweaked/upgraded version of a pedal is available and good, I can't see why anyone would feel the need to get an old version upgraded. My knowledge is limited, so I wouldn't know about any particular pedal and mod.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amps w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Origin, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic