Recommendations for good amp for pedal steel & lead guitar

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Good prices on the L 9;
https://reverb.com/item/404984-lab-series-l9-80-s-black-combo-amplifier-with-on-board-audio-compressor
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Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

BB King used a Lab L5. Good enough for him Smile

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--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I liked the built-in Audio Compressor too. It sounded almost as good for steel as my Dr Z Surgical Steel, and Joe Walsh uses one for six sting. Both amp good for Baritone Guitar.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

Craig - sorry , I didn't read your original post well.

If you have a NV 400, the LA 400 would not suit you, as it's similar to the NV 400.

Out of your list - Fender Twin. There's one with JBL's on eBay right now if you look, or better yet post in the Wanted to Buy section on the Forum - you'd be surprised what happens Smile

_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I have a Twin that I'm going to sell as soon as I can figure out a price. Gorgeous split cabs in dark green built by Rick Johnson. Started life as a Quad.
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps

Jim Kennedy · From: Brentwood California, USA

Has anyone tried the fender mustang with p steel? They are great for guitar. The effects and modeling are very good, especially considering the price. I think $300 for the mustang with the 100 watt combo. IMHO they sound bettter then my cybertwin, which was $1200 in 2000. The cybertwin is ok, not great, for steel. And I have spent hours trying to get a good sound for psteel. Really am wondering if the mustang can cut the mustard.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin,

Chris Grigsby · From: Boulder, CO

For double duty I would stick to tube amps over solid state. As others have mentioned, you can't go wrong with a Little Walter or Milkman if you are looking for a newly constructed handmade amp. Some call them overpriced or 'boutique' but they represent the cost of hand making a product in the USA using the finest components and shouldn't be compared to junk mass produced in third world countries.

If you want to go with a vintage amp, especially a Twin Reverb, just be wary of the weight. At a minimum you may want to swap the speakers for something lighter like the Telonics or Eminence Travis Toy 12.

Other amps that I've been keen to try with steel but haven't are Swart and Victoria. These can be found used a little more readily than Little Walter or Milkman.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Best,
Chris
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Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet.

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

Carl Mesrobian · From: Salem, Massachusetts, USA

Can't argue there - In all my years of playing I've owned a few SS amps vs MANY tube amps Smile

_________________
--carl

"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Another factor in convincing me to try a Twin Reverb again was my purchase a few months ago of a Fryette Power Station, which is a reactive speaker load combined with a 50-watt tube re-amplifier made by Steven Fryette's company, which basically started out as VHT amps - http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/

This thing is like a Swiss Army Knife - it will soak up to 150 watts down to an adjustable and potentially low level without completely screwing up my sound like most power soaks do. I've tried most of them, and this is the first one I've ever found to give me a reasonably natural sound at lower volumes. It will take anything from a selectable 2/4 or 8 or 16 Ohm output impedance from your amp and put it out to a selectable 2/4 or 8 or 16 Ohm speaker. You can either bypass the entire thing with a rocker switch for full power from the amp (I use that for pedal steel with the Twin or Session 400), or engage the system, which gives pretty controllable volume from bedroom levels to the full 50-watt (2-6L6) output of the re-amplifier. Line in and out, switchable instrument/line-level effects send/return, some basic EQ, and a ground lift switch.

At this point, I am pretty comfortable going to a gig with just a pedal steel amp like a Twin Reverb or Session 400 for both pedal steel and guitar. The Power Station sits perfectly on top of them, e.g.,

That Twin is not a reissue.

The other thing the Power Station does well is goose up the output of a Fender Champ or other small amp like a Princeton or Deluxe using the re-amplifier. Damned handy. I've also used it as a power amp with my Revelation preamp: Rev => Power Station => 1x12", 2x12", or 1x15" speaker cab. It will cut any stage volume my circa 50-watt tweed Bassman or Little Walter can handle.

Not exactly cheap at circa $700, but worth it to me. Definitely saved me some "love letters" from club management about my guitar volume. Cool

Jamie Mitchell · From: Nashville, TN

awesome Dave!
i've seen a few people use those Power Stations - David Torn used one or two for his three-amp rig, and they seem really useful, and my impression is better than a normal attenuator, although i've yet to use one.

i already do the slaving little amps into big amps thing, so i've got a handle on that, but the bypass-able element of the Power Station does seem to make it pretty ideal for a tube steel/guitar amp.

John Goux · From: California, USA

Dave, that VHT power Station looks like a real problem solver. As I looked at the manual I began to see more ways you could use it.

To add speaker cabs to vintage Fender amps at correct impedance.
To add a tube powered slave speaker off the sound of the original amp.
To add reverb or other effects to vintage or new dry amps.

Also, there is the possibility of using it with SS amps. Want to add a tube driven amp off something like a Teleonics or Peavey? This unit could do that, and a maintain your EQ and effects from the SS amp.

I hope it sounds as good as you say. I used a VHT power amp for years and I like his stuff.
John

John Goux · From: California, USA

Dave, which speakers do you have in the a Twin Reverb? If it is Jensen C12ns, do you find them to have enough headroom for pedal steel with a band?
J

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Yeah, John - it can do all of those things; when I said "Swiss Army Knife", I really meant it. I didn't mention it specifically, but it's definitely useful for matching amps and cabs, and I've used it a few times for that purpose. I've also used it with my cut-down solid-state Session 400 with 12" Telonics speaker - I found it warmed up my guitar sound. And it's small - I can safely carry it and some odds and ends like the extra cables needed in a generic Dell laptop bag.

But this is all "to my tastes" - I like it, but YMMV. I'm 2+ hours from any big-box store that might carry these, so I just bought one and figured I'd send it back if it was all hype. Personally, I think it delivers as-promised. But anybody close to a place that carries them (I know MF/GC does) should probably check one out before buying. I'll say one thing, though - this thing transmits a pretty faithful version of the signal it gets, so Garbage-In, Garbage-Out definitely applies. What I find is that the re-amplifier does give a nice tube "warm-up" to a good solid-state amp that might be, let's say, a bit cold or sterile for guitar, and of course, it does allow one to push the amp harder.

On the '66 Twin Reverb speakers - these are the classic gold/brown-label Jensen C12N speakers labeled C8261-x (in my case, x=5), but definitely C12N. They sound great for either guitar or pedal steel at a pretty loud volume, to my tastes. But being a blackface Twin and not ultra-high power/efficiency speakers, there are definitely limits to headroom with these, in the terms that many pedal steel players seem to think about these days. Not to mention the risk of blowing the speakers if pushed way too hard.

But I sincerely hope I never, ever have to play clean pedal steel at the kinds of volumes that require kilowatts of clean power. Personally, I think that if a band is so busy and loud that I need a pair of cranked Session/NV 400s just to hear myself and maintain that clean presence and clarity that a lot of us pedal steel players want, then I'm playing in the wrong band. Nobody around here that knows me thinks I'm a quiet player by any stretch, LOL. But to me, if a blackface Twin Reverb ain't enough power, we got a problem, Houston. Somebody else needs to turn down.

David Cubbedge · From: Toledo,Ohio, USA

FOR ME, TWO WORDS....

TWIN REVERB!

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Red Emmons D10 fatback #2246D with sweet Hugh Briley split cases, Black Emmons S10 #1466S, '73 Fender "Snakeskin" Twin Reverb, Peavey Nashville 400, Line 6 Pod XT, Fender 400, Fender Stringmaster Double-8, too many guitars, one bass!

Steven Paris · From: Los Angeles

So, I am curious---just how much louder is a Fender Twin Reverb equipped with 2 x JBL D-120s over one with 2 x Jensen C12Ns? I am guessing from what spec I can find that it would be +3 db. Just noticeable?
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Emmons & Peavey

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I used a Music Man 212-HD, which is basically a twin with more power, for over 30 years. Mine was the all-tube version that was made during the time Leo Fender ran the company.

It is a better-than-excellent all-purpose amp. It sounded great no matter what instrument I played through it. Steel, guitar, banjo, (I suck at banjo,) mandolin etc. The current owner plays guitar abd keyboards through it.

I also had a Peavey LTD for much of that time. The Peavey was actually a much better steel amp. But I was never able to get a good sound on the other instruments on it. I used it on gigs where I only plated the steel.

The best sound was when I hooked them both up.
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Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

The elusive white buffalo...

the short answer: there is no such thing. There will never be. So get ready to compromise and the thing to think about is where you want to make that compromise:

100 watt amp for guitar? Generally not a good idea in clubs. By the time the amp hits its sweet spot, you have lost all of your friends and started a war with the sound crew.

20 watt amp for pedal steel? Sure, but not on a large stage.

And then there are even more conflicts: guitar begs for compression, where steel does not. Guitar has a different midrange than pedal steel. Guitar has a completely different impedance than pedal steel. Guitar has a much more limited bandwidth than pedal steel.

What is the "best"?

Ideally that would be 2 separate amplifiers, one specifically designed for each task. But then thats an extra trip from the car.

Split the difference. Find something tube based in the 40-50 watt range. A hair overpowered for 6 string, and hair underpowered for Steel. 2 Channels is good, but not essential if you have a pedal to shift the midrange and top end when you sit down at the steel. If you use a single channel amp - use an active volume pedal or buffer to smooth out the impedance between the two instruments. This will net you better results for a common ground EQ.
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Chris Grigsby · From: Boulder, CO

Yet, don't you predominantly use the 20W Creamer for your PSG gigs and studio work? Or do you play live with the 40W Mini or 85W?

Fascinated to see how the Creamer running 6L6s compares to the 40W Mini tomorrow when I take delivery of the former.

Best,
Chris
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Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet.

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

I use my Creamer for everything, but that may not work for everyone. When I am on a big stage, I typically have a full sound system and a monitor - when I play in a little club, 20 watts is more than enough and half the time I can hear the steel blasting out of the house speakers.

I've had the same pair of 5881 in my Creamer for almost 5 years now. Plenty of power, and of course it sounds great with the tele too. After 2 years of JBL D120 I put a Celestion Alnico Creamback in. Totally different sound - and its great!

To the original poster: keep in mind every answer you get will be extremely subjective. For me 20 watts and one channel is perfect, but your results may vary. The best thing to do is try things out and see where you end up.

Every amp, speaker, pedal steel, guitar, pickup, string... it all adds up to a different final product. And nothing on that list is as important as your fingers.
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Craig Bailey · Posted 8 Dec 2016 7:50 pm

Tim would a Creamer or Sideman be best for me if I wanted to play pedal steel and telecaster through one amp?

Craig

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

what are your typical gigs?

The Sideman is really loud!
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Dennis Lee · From: Forest Grove, Oregon, USA

As for me, I'll take my Milkman Mini 40. It kicks ass and keeps on ticking! I've heard my good friend Larry Behm play my amp at a large country nightclub, unmiced, and literally penetrated the club with great sound, and the volume was only half or less. There's my 2 cents worth. A shout out for Tim and his Milkman creations!

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