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Topic: First time on pedal steel with a band - UPDATE |
Josephus Vroomans
From:
The Hague, The Netherlands
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 1:35 pm |
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I've played pedal steel for about two and a half years now. This Friday night is going to be my first time playing in a rehearsal room with other musicians. A lady singer, two guitar players, bass and drums. For all of them it's the first time they'll be playing together. It's like we're all auditioning at the same time. If things turn out right this is going to be a new (amateur) country band.
They're all reasonably experienced musicians, mostly in their 50's or early 60's. I'm 61 and have played in several bands for quite a few years as a lead singer and rythm guitarist. But this is my first time on steel. So I'm a little nervous to say the least! Anyway, pedal steel players are hard to find in this part of the world. So I'm just hoping they'd rather have me than no steel at all.
We're going to play tunes like Your Cheating Heart, C'est la vie, Two more bottles of Wine, and some others. I've been practising a lot the past two weeks and I think I can do allright with these songs.
I just thought I'd post this here and maybe get a few words of encouragement and hopefully some helpful suggestions from you guys! Thanks.
_________________
Stage One licensed by Zumsteel, Boss Katana 100, Gretsch Electromatic G5715, Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck
Last edited by Josephus Vroomans on 17 Sep 2016 10:57 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Jeff Garden
From:
Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 2:06 pm
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Hey Josephus.....have one or two of those excellent Dutch beers first to loosen up and you'll be just fine! I think many times we're our own worst critics. There are many non-steel players (i.e. fellow bandmembers and audience) who love the sound of pedal steel, don't have a clue how it's played, and think everything you do is magical. We're the ones who worry too much about every note and are often perfectionists. Bottom line, have fun..that's why we play, right? Also, many times in a band setting you can play as little or as much as you want. As opposed to playing a solo piece where all eyes (and ears!) are on you, you can add fills here and there based on your confidence level as the nite goes on and the rest of the band will be carrying on anyway. I have total confidence in you!  |
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John Brock
From:
Xenia, Ohio
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 3:03 pm Band play
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My rule of thumb is....dont get nervous...when in doubt....play the melody...the rest is right there in the neighborhood.
_________________
GFI S10 Nashville 400 Epiphone J200 Kentucky BM650 Mandolin Fender 112 Alvarez 5018 12
Rus-Ler Deluxe |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 3:04 pm
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Good for you! Go for it and have fun. And keep us updated, we love success stories!  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 3:07 pm
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Congratulations, go for it and good luck.
If you were capable of improvising as a lead guitar player, you'll be able to hang on steel. Just don't overplay, and make yer notes count.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Drew Pierce
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 3:11 pm
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Listening is the key. There's an old saying; "It's not the notes you play so much as the spaces in between". Or something like that. I interpret that to mean timing is critical and there is more risk in overplaying than underplaying. There's another old saying: if the kickoff and ending of a familiar song are strong, most audiences will like it.
Remembering these things should get you through just fine. Good luck!
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals. |
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Drew Pierce
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 3:14 pm
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Lane posted when I was typing. I agree with everything he said.
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Drew Pierce
Emmons D10 Fatback, S10 bolt-on, Zum D10, Evans RE500, Hilton volume and delay pedals. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 12 Sep 2016 5:14 pm
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| Since there's a lead guitar player,see if you and he can cue each other so you can switch off on fills behind the singer and split the instrumental solos.And let us know how it went! |
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Bob Grado
From:
Holmdel, New Jersey
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 4:44 am
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Josephus,
I'd practice up on any signature steel intro's, lay back on the first couple of verses or better yet work it out with the rest of the band who will be taking the fills, and kick it it up on the choruses.
I would sit out completely on the verse prior to a chorus I'd be backing. Remember not to over play .
If your playing with two guitar players the last thing you want to do is compete with them for space.
I would worry to much about soloing the first time around.
On a side note I'll be traveling to the Hague on business 10/3 through 10/9. Any suggestion on where to go to hear some live music?
Good Luck! |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 9:59 am
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Good Luck, Josephus!
Whatever you do, do it with a smile and try to enjoy the music.
Best Wishes, Walter
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www.lloydgreentribute.com |
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Josephus Vroomans
From:
The Hague, The Netherlands
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 11:54 am
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Thanks guys for your positive thoughts!
_________________
Stage One licensed by Zumsteel, Boss Katana 100, Gretsch Electromatic G5715, Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck |
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Josephus Vroomans
From:
The Hague, The Netherlands
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 11:56 am
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Thanks Bob Grado. I'll send you a pm about music in The Hague.
_________________
Stage One licensed by Zumsteel, Boss Katana 100, Gretsch Electromatic G5715, Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 12:46 pm
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I definitely agree with what the other Jeff said - steel players are definitely the most critical (of ourselves and also, in some cases, of other players).
To most non-steel players (musicians and audience members) even the most cliched AB pedal licks sound great.
Don't be afraid to play real simple stuff. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 13 Sep 2016 6:28 pm
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| One more thing-if they record it,get a copy.That willtell you better than anything else what you're doing right,and what you want to do right. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Sep 2016 1:43 am
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excellent Josephus ! Sounds like it's gonna be a great time.
Wishing you the best.
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Josephus Vroomans
From:
The Hague, The Netherlands
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Posted 17 Sep 2016 12:53 pm
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UPDATE
So how did it go?
Well, I can't really say it went well. Main reason: I could barely hear myself play during this practise session. The licks I practised, the 'subtle' moves, the 'tasteful' slides; what had seemed fairly easy playing at home was now a big problem because I couldn't hear what I was doing.
To my left: a hard hitting drummer. To my right: rythm guitar way too loud. Other side of the room: booming bass playing lots of wrong notes and a fairly loud lead guitar playing really good stuff. The lady singer also cranked up the volume to make herself heard.
After the first song I suggested we all turn down a bit. This resulted in mostly blank stares and some shrugs. Okay then, so I turned up the master volume of my 100 Watt amp and floored the volume pedal. I didn't like my sound at all, but now at least I could hear what chord I was playing. But playing C'est la Vie, in which the steel plays harmony (intro and break) with lead guitar still didn't go well. I was struggling to get it right. And I think I got it mostly wrong!
So we played a few more songs. Unfortunately the bass player and drummer, who had joined with just a few days notice, hadn't prepared anything. Being mostly rock players they were also painfully unfamiliar with the country songs we were trying to do. Meanwhile, playing my pedal steel felt like I was trying to stay afloat in a sea of loud music. Maybe I pulled off a few nice licks every once in a while, but I wasn't too happy with my playing. I should also say I was a little nervous.
After a while we had a beer break, and Fritz, the rythm guitarist who had initiated the whole affair because he's trying to get a band together asked everybody how they were liking it so far and if they'd be interested to go on together in the future.
To sum it up: for the lead guitarist (who was really excellent) this whole bunch was obviously below his level, so he said in a very friendly way that he'd go on looking for another band to join. The bass player and drummer said they weren't so sure yet they really wanted to get into a country band. The singer (who was not bad at all) was quite positive but still wanted to think about it. And all I could say was that it had been an interesting experience for me as a not yet very experienced steel player, but that I was mainly hoping for a chance to hear myself a bit better next time.
After that we went back and did a few more songs. Then we all packed up and left, saying we'd be in touch.
So that was it for now. I'll just wait and see what Fritz will do next to get his band together. And perhaps I'll have another chance to do one of these sessions with him and some other people he can find.
Meanwhile I'll keep practising. Take some more lessons. And keep listening to good steel players.
The whole "volume" problem still puzzles me though. Should I have played even louder? Cranked up the gain? Should I have insisted for them to turn down a bit more? Is it just a matter of only playing where you get some "space" in the song?
I would like to hear from you guys if you ever had the problem of not being able to hear yourself play in a band and how you cope with it.
_________________
Stage One licensed by Zumsteel, Boss Katana 100, Gretsch Electromatic G5715, Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck
Last edited by Josephus Vroomans on 17 Sep 2016 1:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 17 Sep 2016 1:39 pm
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| Josephus Vroomans wrote: |
Well, I can't really say it went well. Main reason: I could barely hear myself play during this practise session. The licks I practised, the 'subtle' moves, the 'tasteful' slides; what had seemed fairly easy playing at home was now a big problem because I couldn't hear what I was doing. |
I'm sure not being able to hear yourself properly was a huge problem but, even if your sound balance had been perfect, if you're anything like me, you may have found that your carefully rehearsed parts wouldn't have gone so smoothly ayway. One factor is that the band wouldn't have been playing exactly the same was as on stuff you were rehearsing to. Another is that nerves or whatever may kick in a spoil stuff a bit. Even on guitar (where I feel a lot more confident than on pedal steel). I can play parts perfectly at home and make silly mistakes at the first rehearsal and even after playing it at rehearsal fine a few times, there's still a chance it won't go 100% to plan when I play it live the first couple of times. Most of the time the audience doesn't matter and by the second time I come to play it live, it's usually a lot better. I think this is true for a lot of people - 1 live rehearsal is worth 10 solo practice sessions and a gig is worth at least 10 rehearsals in terms of straightening things out.
As for the volume thing - I assume you tried things like putting your amp at head height or having it angled up towards your head - if the rest of the band won't play quieter then turning up is about the only option but It's no fun playing in a band like that. And once you get beyond a certain volume, all subtlety goes out of the window - especially once you get to the point that you are over driving your amp.
Often it is the drummer that sets the overall volume and it's the better ones who can play quietly with energy and excitement.
Maybe with a better rhythm section, the singer would be more interested. And you don't need a virtuoso guitar player - I'd be pretty happy in a band with a guitar player who played like Luther Perkins all night.
Good luck with your next venture - I bet you learned a lot from this one anyway. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2016 1:52 pm
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I wise man (Mr. Don Curtis) once told me, "steel guitar is all about being subtle", or something like that.
Hard to be subtle when you are surrounded by blasters!
Keep going man - you are already in demand.!
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Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 17 Sep 2016 2:13 pm
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Sounds like you were not having fun. Keep trying and maybe check out backing up somebody playing acoustic guitar and singing.
Play all you can with anybody possible. As you get better more good opportunities will show up.
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Bob |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2016 9:21 pm
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Are you sure the band wasn't from the Tampa Bay area? You are describing the musicians around here to a "T".
The thing about steel...the band hasta be very clean & sparse for the subtleties of the steel to come through. volume ain't the answer; it's all about the rhythym section knowing how to play clean & sparsly. Another problem is rock musicians trying to play country which they have trouble doing. Much easier for country musicians to play rock.
Keep on practicing & look for a band that has it more together...try Craigslist.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 21 Sep 2016 10:16 pm
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| Josephus-the volume problems go along with a full band playing in a small(or not so small) room,and were compounded by rock players who try to play country.Wouldn't be surprised of the drummer was banging away on his ride cymbal all night.There's another problem caused by a band playing too loud for the room.It's called "masking",where overtones from one instrument cover up sounds other instruments are making. There's another,more subtle situation that goes on,especially for those new to the material or new to ensemble playing.One plays with the side of the brain that speaks and analyzes until a certain point of relaxation is reached.Until then it doesn't really "swing",but at that point the creative side takes over and you just play.It's much like the difference between reciting memorized words and singing them.Sort of like Mel Tillis having a bad stammering problem,except when he sang.IMO it takes a fair amount of onstage ensemble playing to learn how to slip into that zone.But(also IMO) this jam session was very much worth doing and I hope you'll keep at it.Playing with others is far more educational than playing alone. |
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Josephus Vroomans
From:
The Hague, The Netherlands
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 2:00 am
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Thanks everyone for speaking Words of Wisdom!
_________________
Stage One licensed by Zumsteel, Boss Katana 100, Gretsch Electromatic G5715, Dobro Hound Dog Deluxe Square Neck |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2016 3:44 am
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Josephus,
You just experienced the "Break-In" required by all steel players. It was a cosmic trick to test your resolve. It wasn't you, it was the band's over-volume that shut you down. Next step, try some more guys. In the meantime you are learning many things that will be very valuable in the future as a steel player like volume is not the key, rock-n-rollers rarely make a good country band, and most importantly, how to laugh at incompatibility.
With 2&1/2 years under your belt I'm sure you were ready, they weren't. Keep goin. It'll be worth it Buddy.
We believe in you.
JB - 50 years and 50 bands of experience.
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Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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