P/P Raise-Assist Springs... MADE EASY

Duane Reese · Posted 1 Jun 2013 1:05 pm

The pictures were missing for a time, when I closed the cloud I had them on, but now they are back.

I'm working on refining this mod some. As these photos show, the old way of doing it was quick & dirty. Oh Well

Next photos will hopefully show something a little more elegant (?) and easy to install.

John Brabant · From: Calais, VT, USA

Duane Reese et. al. Any updates on this mod? Anyone else try Duane's ideas out and have reports to provide on the pros/cons to adding these helper springs?
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John Brabant
1978 Emmons D-10 P-P

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Humm, my pedals on my push pull are easy. I just take those springs off the pedals and adjust the slack where the pedal rod holder groove is all way up to keep rods from popping off if you hit one or something. I know that some say those springs are for other reasons too but can't really see it. They are way to strong for their purpose and the same with the LeGrands, I take them off too and have never had any trouble. Makes pedals easy and smooth and stays in tune fine.
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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

John Brabant · From: Calais, VT, USA

As a push-pull player, I find this thread particularly intriguing and may give Duane's ideas a try. I also like the idea of adding a second set of collars to hook the springs to to allow for easier minor spring adjustment.

So, two questions.

1. What is the wire you are using Duane? Is there a particular dimension and stiffness that I would need to look for to allow for both ease of bending and at the same time the wire to hold its shape?

2. Where would I pick up some extra collars? Jerry Roller, Clem Schmitz? Are they used in applications other than steel guitars where I could purchase them locally?
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John Brabant
1978 Emmons D-10 P-P

John Brabant · From: Calais, VT, USA

Jody Cameron's PP has the return springs removed and has added connecters much like bellcranks added to apparently provide for a more secure pedal rod connection where the springs have been removed. Anyone else have any experience with this approach? Jody's guitar at thread:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=305369&highlight=
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John Brabant
1978 Emmons D-10 P-P

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

John, I know some of the push pull gurus frown on the idea of removing pedal springs but that is the very first thing I do when I get an Emmons guitar, whether it be Legrand or push pull. On the push pull, I adjust the slack to where when the pedal is up, the pedal grove that holds the rod is right against body so they won't hop off and out of the little grove. Of course, Legrands make no difference.

I can see very little use of the springs. If the guitar is in proper working order, no binding or any obstruction, the strings and pedals will properly return home. The springs are also way to strong for their function. I did use some weaker springs once on a push pull and worked fine.

I have never had any problems that resulted from removing springs off pedals. Some brand guitars don't even have springs so my 2 cents, I think they are usless and just make the pedals harder. JMHO

I really don't care for the return springs modification on a push pull. As I said before, a properly set up push pull plays easy enough, especially if you take them darn springs off.

The advantages to Jody's guitar I see is that the pedals rods won't hop out and looks like the leverage is increased just a little which would make the pedals easier but slightly longer, maybe 1/8 inch if that much.
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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Jerry Jones · From: Franklin, Tenn.

You might take note that on Jody's guitar, the extra pedal crank creates a torque situation with the original pedal stop. Since the pedal rod crank and the pedal stop crank are two different items, there is stress put on the pedal crank set screw when the pedal bottoms out.

Removing the pedal return springs will cause the C pedal to drop when the A pedal is activated. I like the return springs and the way they are situated around the cross shaft rotation... lessening tension at the end of pedal stroke.

For PP spring hooks, I've used .055 (24 gage) carbon steel music wire.. available in 100 pc. packs of 1 foot lengths. In a pinch, use some of those utility flag markers available at Home Depot.... they are .062 and cheap.
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Jerry Jones

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

[quote="Jerry Jones"]You might take note that on Jody's guitar, the extra pedal crank creates a torque situation with the original pedal stop. Since the pedal rod crank and the pedal stop crank are two different items, there is stress put on the pedal crank set screw when the pedal bottoms out.

Removing the pedal return springs will cause the C pedal to drop when the A pedal is activated. I like the return springs and the way they are situated around the cross shaft rotation... lessening tension at the end of pedal stroke.
quote]

I was thinking same thing about the tension on the set screws. They may be drilled thru like levers are.

I have noticed that the C pedal drops but really causes not problem and looks cool to people that know nothing about a steel guitar, lol.
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Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

I did a modified version of Duane's idea on my Uni PP. Works great! Never needed anything like this on a 10 string PP neck, but the extra pulls on the Uni got pretty stiff. I only put the springs on strings with 3 or more raises.

Duane Reese · Posted 4 Sep 2016 7:57 am

Henry, I had a D-12 p/p a long time ago that had those springs that would re-rotate the shaft back into position. They attached right near where the pedal rod attached. Is that what you are talking about? I tried removing those once, and it made it a little lighter, but it wasn't as dramatic of a difference as the helper springs are. This is just for people who find the inherent stiffness of p/p pedals more than they like.

Willie Sims · From: PADUCAH, KY, USA

Sometime ago I posted a subject on making your pedals easier to push. I designed and fabricated pedal extenders for the A B and C pedalS. These extenders didn't look like a blacksmith job, they would pass for factory built. They were only one half inch longer than the pedal itself, you won't believe how much difference, one half inch added to your pedal length, makes the pedals easier to push.

This would be a lot simpler, and a whole lot easier than the helper springs. You could leave your guitar like the factory designed it, and have easier pedal action.

Our good departed friend Chris Ivey and another fellow thought I was crazy at the time I posted this article. But regardless of what the naysayers say it will work because I have done it. Willie SIMS

Duane Reese · Posted 8 Oct 2016 10:13 pm

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