The Steel Guitar Forum Store 

Post new topic GRC Never10 blocks forced upgrades to Windows 10
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  GRC Never10 blocks forced upgrades to Windows 10
Wiz Feinberg


From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
Post  Posted 25 May 2016 9:05 pm    
Reply with quote

For those of you running Windows 7 and 8.1 computers who don't, for whatever reasons, want to be forcibly upgraded to Windows 10, there is a new utility available to block this behavior. It is a program written by Steve Gibson, of Gibson Research, called "Never10"

Steve Gibson is a Guru in the computer operating systems sciences and is featured on regular Security Now podcasts with Leo Laporte, formerly of Tech TV. I still use his ShieldsUp, Leak Test and UPlug-n-Pray test pages to check router security settings.

This small program (most of Steve's programs are as small as possible) does Registry tweaks that are normally only available in Windows 7/8 Professional and Enterprise editions. It basically substitutes for the Group Policy Editor that is missing from home use editions.

If you are interested in the program, read the details at grc.com and try it out. You can change your mind later on if you want to try out Windows 10. Best of all, it is totally free!
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 1:38 am    
Reply with quote

I'll give that a try Wiz. I have dual boot Win 10/Win 7 and I've kept Win 7 off line (NIC disabled) as I don't need to upgrade it. I tried the GWX program and it removes the Win 10 upgrade data but it doesn't prevent it from recurring.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 3:55 am    
Reply with quote

Didn't work.

I enabled the NIC in my Win 7 Home install.
Installed and ran the utility.
Rebooted the PC.
Checked for updates, as it has been off line for a while. One of the updates which was checked for install was the KB3035583, which is the Win 10 upgrade.

Here are two screenshots. Of the Never Win 10 program after it has been run. The second is the Windows update list after the Never Win 10 was run.






_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wiz Feinberg


From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 5:37 am    
Reply with quote

I sent an email to Steve about this. I'll let you know what I hear back.
_________________
"Wiz" Feinberg, Moderator SGF Computers Forum
Security Consultant
Twitter: @Wizcrafts
Main web pages: Wiztunes Steel Guitar website | Wiz's Security Blog | My Webmaster Services | Wiz's Security Blog
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 6:21 am    
Reply with quote

I'm back to the NIC disabled in Win 7.

I'm using Win 10 and everything works OK in Win 10 including all my recording studio software (Sonar) and hardware. I kept Win 7 as I needed it for an RS232C application as the USB/RS232C adapter would only work on Win 7 and earlier OS'. I found a USB/RS232C adapter that works in Win 10, so Win 7 isn't needed for that. I'll still keep it since I do some PC support and have a couple of clients that still use Win 7.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Mitch Drumm

 

From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 8:34 am    
Reply with quote

I had 3035583 offered me today, for the umpteenth time.

But it's always shown as "optional", not "important".

I have my Windows Update settings set to the bare minimum.

I keep hiding it.

I don't use Never10, but I do use the competing GWX Control Panel Monitor.
View user's profile Send private message

Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 9:19 am    
Reply with quote

Mitch Drumm wrote:
I had 3035583 offered me today, for the umpteenth time.
But it's always shown as "optional", not "important".

KB3035583 pops up here too, along with half a dozen others that are part of W10, but here they are marked as "Important". I can't seem to memorize which ones are W10 besides KB3035583 and KB2952664, and I'm getting really tired of googling each one every time.
GWX Control Panel Monitor is installed, and it may have prevented W10 from installing, but it hasn't helped me to shorten this time-consuming task of sorting the important Windows Updates from the dangerous (W10) ones.
So I'll try Never10.
View user's profile Send private message

Mitch Drumm

 

From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 9:57 am    
Reply with quote

Here's a list of KBs to avoid, in numerical order

Problem is, you can find other lists and they will vary slightly--maybe a 90 percent overlap. Some of the lower numbered ones below (say under 29000) are likely not directly related to Win 10--but maybe to telemetry? I haven't personally checked all of them.

This one is from someone who is quite competent, but do your own due diligence. I take no responsibility.

You might have better luck if you uncheck that "recommended updates" box in the Windows Update control panel. The only box I have checked there is "who can install updates". I've turned off automatically downloading and installing on that same page. It's set to "check for updates, but let me choose......"

2505438
2506928
2592687
2660075
2670838
2726535
2876229
2882822
2902907
2923545
2952664
2970228
2976978
2977759
2990214
2994023
3012973
3015249
3021917
3022345
3035583
3044374
3050265
3050267
3064683
3065987
3065988
3068708
3072318
3074677
3075249
3075851
3075853
3078667
3080149
3081437
3081454
3083324
3083325
3083710
3083711
3086255
3150513
View user's profile Send private message

Dave Potter

 

From:
Texas
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 10:33 am    
Reply with quote

Mitch Drumm wrote:
Here's a list of KBs to avoid, in numerical order


I don't know where that list came from, but as you note, MS has been on a "telemetry" jag for a while. Some of those KBs probably have nothing to do with Win10, which is what I thought this discussion was about.

And it's worth pointing out that some of the Win10 upgrade-related KBs are OS-specific - some for Win7, no SP1, some for Win7 SP1, and some for Win8. If you have Win7 installed, you probably won't see an update that applies to Win8, for example.
View user's profile Send private message

Mitch Drumm

 

From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 10:55 am    
Reply with quote

3068708 is telemetry related and is a replacement for the earlier 3022345, also telemetry related.

Neither is on my Win 7 SP1 Home Premium PC.

Some folks care about telemetry and others don't.
View user's profile Send private message

Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 11:15 am    
Reply with quote

All your secret history is belong to us.
View user's profile Send private message

Larry Carlson


From:
My Computer
Post  Posted 26 May 2016 4:29 pm    
Reply with quote

Well, I just had KB3035583 pop up in my update list. Phooey.
I just finished installing Never10 on my computer and I will be downstairs doing the same thing on my wife's next.
I used Disk Cleanup like they suggested and I lost a few gigs during cleanup so I assume I had some Windows 10 files lurking and waiting to get installed. Whew........that was a close one.
Thanks for getting this thread started. We computer illiterates out here appreciate it. Very Happy
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying.
View user's profile Send private message

Larry Carlson


From:
My Computer
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 1:41 pm    
Reply with quote

Ok, I am not trying to extend this thread any longer than necessary but I have a question.

As I said, I installed Never10 and then checked the appropriate box and off I went.
I am still getting a message that I have an important update.
That update turns out to be KB3035583, so it is still there waiting to be installed.
What I would like to know is what will happen if I tell it to install all important updates.
I can see it waiting in line to be installed. Will it disappear, will it remain there or did I do something wrong in installing Never10.
What I did was install Never10, then bring it up and click on the "disable windows 10 upgrade" icon.

As a disclaimer, I am a computer idiot.
I know enough to not get in to too much trouble and don't know enough to not to get in to too much trouble.

Thank you for any info you can give.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying.
View user's profile Send private message

Mitch Drumm

 

From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 2:08 pm    
Reply with quote

Larry Carlson wrote:


I installed Never10 and then checked the appropriate box and off I went.

I am still getting a message that I have an important update.

That update turns out to be KB3035583, so it is still there waiting to be installed.

What I would like to know is what will happen if I tell it to install all important updates.

I can see it waiting in line to be installed. Will it disappear, will it remain there or did I do something wrong in installing Never10.

What I did was install Never10, then bring it up and click on the "disable windows 10 upgrade" icon.



I use a competing application (GWX Control Panel) rather than Never10, so I can't speak from personal experience about it.

As far as I know, NEITHER will keep any update from APPEARING in the list of available updates.

As far as I know, what they supposedly do is either prevent the update from installing or prevent it from running if installed.

3035583 does continue to appear on Windows Update for me, even though I use GWX Control Panel.

If you are semi-brave, you can go ahead and accept 3035583 and see if Never10 does its job.

If it doesn't, then it's useless.

The point of viewing the update list is to use your personal judgement and decide which you want to install. If you see 3035583, you have the option to hide it (right click) and not download it. So it wouldn't be installed even if Never10 was useless--because you refused it manually.

The premise of Never10 is that it will protect you if you are not knowledgeable, careless, or both.

How well it works is another question.

I have not had any trouble with GWX Control Panel, but I do my best to review and hide all possible unwanted updates by eyeball.
View user's profile Send private message

Larry Carlson


From:
My Computer
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 2:22 pm    
Reply with quote

Mitch Drumm wrote:


I use a competing application (GWX Control Panel) rather than Never10, so I can't speak from personal experience about it.

As far as I know, NEITHER will keep any update from APPEARING in the list of available updates.

What they supposedly do is either prevent the update from installing or prevent it from running if installed.

If you are semi-brave, you can go ahead and accept 3035583 and see if Never10 does its job.

If it doesn't, then it's useless.

The point of viewing the update list is to use your personal judgement and decide which you want to install. If you see 3035583, you have the option to hide it (right click) and not download it. So it wouldn't be installed even if Never10 was useless--because you refused it manually.

The premise of Never10 is that it will protect you if you are not knowledgeable, careless, or both.

How well it works is another question.

I have not had any trouble with GWX Control Panel, but I do my best to review and hide all possible unwanted updates by eyeball.



Thank you for your response.
I always check every update before I let it install which is how I found what they were trying to do.
My wife's computer had 3+gigs of extraneous windows 10 files ready to install before I caught it.

I don't care whether windows 10 is good or not.
I do not like being forced to use it.
It's MY computer. I will decide what goes on it.
We like Windows 7, leave us alone.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying.
View user's profile Send private message

Dave Potter

 

From:
Texas
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 2:37 pm    
Reply with quote

Larry Carlson wrote:
I always check every update before I let it install which is how I found what they were trying to do. My wife's computer had 3+gigs of extraneous windows 10 files ready to install before I caught it.


Larry, if I might interject here, you sound like you know what's going on, and what to look for when it's not.

I happen to be "trying" the Never10 app. It has the appearance of doing the trick, but like other similar apps, it might not be the be-all-end-all for this. Even hiding KB3035583 doesn't keep it from showing up again, apparently. IMO, MS is devising ways to defeat the Never10 kinds of apps out there.

Quote:
I don't care whether windows 10 is good or not. I do not like being forced to use it. It's MY computer. I will decide what goes on it. We like Windows 7, leave us alone.


My sentiments exactly. I've installed Win10 on my PC twice now, and both times, it's failed to run my essential hardware/software. That's unacceptable, and for me, at least, Win10 has proven to not be ready for prime time.

Realistically, we'll all eventually get to the point that MS won't support Win7 for security updates, etc, any further. We'll have to do some soul-searching then, and hopefully by then, MS will have some renewed respect for their customers in terms of user-control of their own computers.
View user's profile Send private message

Mitch Drumm

 

From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 3:03 pm    
Reply with quote

How about this for a nightmare:

Windows 10 is supposed to no longer be free after July 29.

Everyone is hoping/assuming that after that date, the nags to update to 10 will go away.

In fact, the nags may continue for years. Who knows.

MS may even decide to extend the free upgrade indefinitely. I doubt if doing that would any longer be a major hit to their bottom line. If they did that, I'd assume the nags would continue.

They're just trying to march right up to the edge of where enough people will abandon Windows to make a difference to them. They don't yet know where that line is, but they're feeling for it. It's fine with them if you hate them, as long as only a limited number do anything about it.
View user's profile Send private message

Larry Carlson


From:
My Computer
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 3:28 pm    
Reply with quote

Mitch Drumm wrote:

They're just trying to march right up to the edge of where enough people will abandon Windows to make a difference to them. They don't yet know where that line is, but they're feeling for it. It's fine with them if you hate them, as long as only a limited number do anything about it.


I am afraid you have described the situation perfectly.
It is a sad state of affairs when consumers have to become alienated before
a company will do what is right.

Like I said.......my computer; my choice.
I am actually considering an Apple product now and that just feels weird.
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying.
View user's profile Send private message

Dave Potter

 

From:
Texas
Post  Posted 28 May 2016 3:39 pm    
Reply with quote

Larry Carlson wrote:
Like I said.......my computer; my choice. I am actually considering an Apple product now and that just feels weird.


Again, I agree with you. And I've posted here before that I'm looking at Apple as well, although I'm unclear if all my Windows applications will run well there. But MS in my face is getting really uncomfortable.
View user's profile Send private message

Jack Stoner


From:
Kansas City, MO
Post  Posted 29 May 2016 2:30 am    
Reply with quote

I don't have any problems with software on Win 10. My recording program (Sonar) is only a Windows product and will not run on an Apple (unless it has Windows). I even have an old program that runs OK under a Win98/ME compatibility mode. All my recording studio hardware is Win 10 compatible (I do have one device that only has Vista drivers and I had to install it in a compatibility mode but it works fine).

Win 10 is even better than older OS' for recording latency. The best I could get (reliably)for my Roland Octa-Capture was 6ms with Win 7 or Win 8.1. With Win 10 I can get 4ms (reliably). According to what I see posted on recording forums, the 4ms is better than those with MAC's are doing with the Octa-Capture.

But, I have to be vigilant so the (dual boot) Win 7 isn't upgraded to Win 10.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Dave Potter

 

From:
Texas
Post  Posted 29 May 2016 3:08 am    
Reply with quote

My last attempt with Windows 10 was just a couple of weeks ago. Got it installed fine, and decided to load up my flight sim software. Some consider computer flight simulation a game, but it's more than that to me. I'm a licensed pilot, and I owned airplanes years back. I'm out of aviation, and I enjoy flight simululation these days on my computer, so it's important to me.

My flight simulation setup consists of the application itself, Lockheed Martin Prepar3D v3.2, a bunch of 3rd party photorealistic scenery, an artificial intelligence aircraft traffic generating application, a weather engine, and 5 USB hardware device controllers, including a force-feedback control yoke and rudder pedals, both imported from European sources.

The 3rd party weather engine, an application called "Active Sky Next", works by connecting to the internet to download actual aviation weather, and communicating with the flight sim software to create weather conditions that mimic real weather for the sim aircraft's current location and time. As the aircraft moves in the simulation, the depicted weather conditions are the same as what's being reported by real time weather sources at those locations in the real world. If I positioned my simulator airplane at the local airport where you live, I would see the same weather on my 3 monitors (3 X Acer XB280HK) that you see looking out your window - winds, clouds, rain, thunder, lightning - it's all there.

OK, so I loaded it all up, and immediately discovered that the weather app could not communicate with the internet to download real weather, nor could it connect to my flight simulator application. I never even got around to checking to see if my controllers worked - there was no point. I spent an entire afternoon and on into the night trying to get things working, including uninstalling/reinstalling both the sim application and the weather engine software. Nothing worked. And in addition to this situation, somewhere along the way, the Win10 Start menu just disappeared - totally went away. I checked on the web, and found that to be a somewhat common problem.

Before I upgraded to Windows 10, everything was working perfectly. Early next day, I reverted to Windows 7, and once again, it all worked.

That makes 2 attempts at Win10 for me, and I'm not planning another for a long while. I just don't need an OS that breaks my software. Life's too short.
View user's profile Send private message


All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

Steel Guitar Forum LLC
PO Box 237
Mount Horeb, WI 53572 USA


Click Here to Send a Donation

Email admin@steelguitarforum.com for technical support.


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for
Band-in-a-Box

by Jim Baron
HTTP