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Topic: The right steel for sitting in on jams |
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 10:50 am |
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not only that, but the incentive is as much in the 'party' as much as the music.
you may not get money, though sometimes some tips are thrown your way, but over the years the rewards have come in free drinks, party supplies, and occassionally hooking up with a bitchin' chick!
and as i mentioned, the more you display your talent and availability, the more you work. and the more pickers and friends you meet!
so to me it's counterproductive to take a minimal compromise of a steel.i want to go perform the best i can with good equipment. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 12:03 pm
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If I'm going jamming, I'm playing for fun. I'll bring the gear that sounds fun
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 12:55 pm
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Myself, I'd go with an MSA D-12 9X8 through a Twin Reverb loaded with two EVO 12s...
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 1:18 pm
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| tom, you forgot to mention the big stage lighting system that shines on you...and the banner! |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 1:25 pm
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Can't ever forget the banner.
_________________
I need an Emmons! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 2:35 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
I don't find taking a D10 to a jam (which I never attend other than the one that got me out of musical retirement) any more work than taking a single neck. You still have to install the legs, flip the knee levers open, turn it over, tune it (no one says you have to tune the C neck), plug a cord from the guitar to the volume pedal, run a cord from vol ped to amp, turn on amp, sit down and enjoy yourself.
The only difference is the weight. If you can carry it to a paid gig, why can't you carry it to any other gig, including a jam? It doesn't lose weight when you do a paid gig.
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Well Richard, I wasn't telling anyone what to take, I was just making "suggestions" to keep it simple if it's something you're doing repeatedly. A D10 does take longer to set up and tear down. It also takes longer to tune, and it takes up more space (which is sometimes at a premium when a lot of pickers are around).
It just seems counter-intuitive to me to carry everything but the kitchen sink to every little gig, and then complain about it. 
YMMV |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 2:55 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
I don't find taking a D10 to a jam (which I never attend other than the one that got me out of musical retirement) any more work than taking a single neck. You still have to install the legs, flip the knee levers open, turn it over, tune it (no one says you have to tune the C neck), plug a cord from the guitar to the volume pedal, run a cord from vol ped to amp, turn on amp, sit down and enjoy yourself.
The only difference is the weight. If you can carry it to a paid gig, why can't you carry it to any other gig, including a jam? It doesn't lose weight when you do a paid gig.
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Well Richard, I wasn't telling anyone what to take, I was just making "suggestions" to keep it simple if it's something you're doing repeatedly. A D10 does take longer to set up and tear down. It also takes longer to tune, and it takes up more space (which is sometimes at a premium when a lot of pickers are around).
It just seems counter-intuitive to me to carry everything but the kitchen sink to every little gig, and then complain about it.
YMMV |
Oh. I forgot the five extra rods. Another 30 seconds max. Other than that, how does it take longer. If you read my postt, I said you didn't have to tune the C neck, which I would assume you won't have with a single neck. A D10 doesn't take that much more room, what, about 8". I don't seem to remember ME complaining about carrying everything but the kitchen sink.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 3:09 pm
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Why go to play, anywhere, with anything less than your favorite guitar and gear that will give you the most options and allow you to sound your best?
Sometimes what you take will depend on the music you will be playing. If its an old school country jam, take that old ShoBud or whatever and have at it.
If its a jam where new modern style "country radio" music will be played don't expect to just mash those A&B pedals and find the love.
If it's a blues jam, it's called that for a reason.. it should be ALL BLUES.. the reason, so that everyone can follow the tunes.. 8-12 - 16 bar blues in what ever key.. you don't show up and try to teach the band NightLife , or some old classic rock tune that sounded bluesy .. you might end up playing Stormy Monday or Red House every time.
For sure you are not gonna jazz it up on the C neck because most times the band doesn't know how to put a 1-6-2-5 turn around in a 3 chord song, or the won't because is not real blues.
Also, don't expect to use your classic country tone as the voice for your steel in this situation.
I did, and was asked to find a new voice, as I sounded "loungey" with a little delay and a country tone.
There is a difference between a JAM and an Open Mic.
In a Jam, players are usually invited to sit in with the house band. maybe a guitar player will sit out to make musical room for a PSG or maybe you will have to fight for some fill space or fight with a guitar players volume issue.
Players get put with other players, hopefully to make a good sounding band .. nothing worse than 2 guitars and neither can play solos..
With an open mic , everyone gets to play no matter what their experience level. |
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Duane Brown
From:
Reno,Nevada USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2015 9:15 pm
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I'm in total agreement with Bo. I always take my D-10 Zum anywhere I play. I work every weekend in Virginia City, Nv. with the Comstock Cowboys from 2-6:00pm. Friends of mine have a monster jazz band down the street, and they play until 9:00pm Sundays. I will load up my steel, stool and amp in a truck or suv, run down the street and be ready to set up when the band takes their first break. I'm set up AND in tune by the time their break is over. They are jazz monsters and I would probably pay to sit in with them but they enjoy having me play with them.
Do I get paid?-- No but I'm getting a Master's Degree in Jazz FREE and having fun doing it. Would I do the same if the band was playing modern "country"?--NO WAY!! I don't play for pay or free if it's not fun.
Another bonus- when you open the steel case in front of horn players who have never seen a steel guitar they can't understand how it makes music. I flip it over after setting it up and they say,"O that's how that thing makes music." |
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Tim Vandeville
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2015 2:22 am
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Around here there are 2 different kinds of jams. One is where you get 15 minutes or 3 songs and then your done (I don't go to these...because like others have said it just isn't worth it to set up for a few songs ). The other is you get mixed and matched with others to play. Ill either check out a jam first or contact the host band to see which way its run.
The least amount of time I have ever played was 2 hours. While others are getting switched in and out I get to stay up there because no one else in the place plays steel.
Every open jam for me is sink or swim moment because usually what is played is what I don't practice to at home. They just call out the key and your off. Ill just listen for a hole in the song to fill. Sink or swim comes when they call you out for a turnaround. It usually "Lets hear some of that steel guitar". No place to run or hide so you just go for it. If I mess it up I just say that's my interpretation of the song..  . |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 12 Sep 2015 3:28 am
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The premise discussed in the OPS post..., which I also misunderstood early on , is a Blues jam, with a house band, and you play a couple of songs, with the house band, Blues songs. Then get off the stage and another player comes up. Not a Country jam where they are pointing to a Steel player to take fills or turnarounds etc...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2015 5:47 am What to take
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I'd have to have C6 to do a blues tune. Maybe it's because my E9 chops are more honky-tonk, but for Blues, Swing, or Rockabilly type stuff I've got to have the C6. If time or space didn't allow it, I'd have to pass. I don't even own any Single neck steels.
I wouldn't be trying to play jazz type changes over a I IV V. Blues shuffle, but I find the voicing on the C6 neck, for me , much better suited for Blues. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Sep 2015 9:09 am
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As to who plays when, make yourself the servant of the song and people will want you to stay. I'll go to a new jam expecting to play no more than a half hour. But by trying to play THEIR stuff and what makes it sound better, people keep saying "come back up here."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 12 Sep 2015 1:55 pm
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To me, the "right" instrument to play in any situation is one that I am comfortable using. I can't fit behind or underneath a dinky little pedal steel, I'm too tall. The smallest I'll use is a more-or-less single-and-a-half-body 12-string (which is probably still lighter than a Fender 400/800, Donny), but I prefer a double body in most situations. Buy a special dinky little pedal steel that doesn't do much just to do some free jam sessions? Not me, thanks.
Another problem with dragging a pedal steel to a "blues jam" type situation is that not everybody 'gets' pedal steel. I've been playing blues most of my life, but even with people who know that, most often it's, "Oh, a pedal steel - we gotta do a country tune." I still play standard/slide guitar and banjo too, and sometimes that's what fits the bill. And there's the issue of stage room - a lot of small club stages are too small to fit a bunch of jammers AND a pedal steel. No matter how small a pedal steel is, it takes up a pretty large footprint on a small stage. |
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 6:32 pm
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So should I even ask (re-ask actually...) this question: what do you think of a six string pedal steel for quick sit in type situations, whether they be jams at friends houses or open mike night?
There are many times friends will say bring your steel and I'll answer (truthfully) "oh it's too much trouble".
Seeing as how it has only six strings, sets up quickly and is small and lightweight,
"on paper" it would seem to be a good option.
Many of us have lap steels or dobros besides our pedal steels, why not one of these?
_________________
Sierra S10 (three!), Peavey 112 and 115, Benoit dobro, Beard Model E dobro, Beard Roadophonic, MSA Superslide, Dean Nickless custom dobro |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 9:57 pm
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I'd get an 8-string lap steel and learn to do bar slants. I've been able to fake some pedal steel licks using C6 with a D on top. Look at it as a opportunity to sharpen up your C6 playing. A lot of C6 seems to translate nicely to E9 with the pedals down or E's lowered. Also, it's really nice to be able to pick up the lap steel, Princeton Reverb, and a volume pedal and load out in one trip! This guy makes it work pretty well and I don't miss the pedals at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN5XDwsj0TI |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 10:16 pm
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Here's Wayne Tanner killing it in a living room jam session with a 6-string and a Peavey combo of some kind. Sounds good to me! I don't think he even bothered with the volume pedal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ng7XsFqT-k |
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 11:24 pm
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| Tony Palmer wrote: |
So should I even ask (re-ask actually...) this question: what do you think of a six string pedal steel for quick sit in type situations, whether they be jams at friends houses or open mike night?
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As I said previously - it works for me.
Would it work for you? The easiest way to find out is to sit down with your steel and some CDs and play along using only strings 3-8 and the A and B pedals (or whatever the steel you are thinking of buying has).
You can even put a couple of bits of electrical tape along the length of the strings you can't use, tape up the knee levers out of the way and don't connect the other pedals.
You may find you can do more than you think you can with fewer strings and pedals. You might even discover some cool licks you can use when you get back to using everything,
After an hour or so you'll know what you think and that's all that matters really. |
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Jamie Howze
From:
Boise, ID
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Posted 15 Sep 2015 9:56 am
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This topic is of particular interest to me since I just relocated and am scoping out a new music scene. I agree with Chris about reasons to play for free. If I were a busy gigging player I probably wouldn't but for a newby in the area or if you aren't gigging it is nice to have an opportunity to get out, meet other musicians, be seen and heard.
Although I have taken a pedal steel to open mics where the band I was in performed a few tunes where I played pedal steel, at a jam I think that stage real estate and time restrictions make hauling and setting up a seat, steel, vp, amp and, for some, effects is way too much. My approach to jams is a bit different. I like to check out a jam first and see what and how they play. If I want to sit in I'll come back later and bring a 6 string lap steel, my little Reverend Goblin amp and sometimes a vp. If it is a straight up blues jam or they play a little of everything I like an E7 tuning. If it's pure hard rock I use open E and for old timey country or more sophisticated blues I like C6. That way I can sit on a bar stool or chair taking up very little space and vamp along adding some color to the sound and take a ride when it's my turn. Most jam players don't know many (any) steel guitar tunes anyway.
If the house band is comfortable with you they'll let you sit in for quite a while as opposed to all the red hot guitarists that rotate out every few tunes. |
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Bob Watson
From:
Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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Posted 16 Sep 2015 1:05 am
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| I picked up a Stage One Encore a few years back because I thought that if I had something light I would be more inclined to play Pedal Steel at open mic nights and jam sessions. I also wanted something light for recording sessions and gigs that I play both Guitar and Steel on. It has motivated me to go out more. Before I bought it I wouldn't even consider taking out a double neck Pedal Steel unless there was money involved. The Encore also happens to be a great Pedal Steel and I really dig the way it plays and sounds. I do miss not having the C6 neck in situations where the band is playing Texas dance hall type music, but it is challenging to try and play C6 type stuff on E9. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 16 Sep 2015 10:34 am
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| Tony Palmer wrote: |
| So should I even re-ask this question: what do you think of a six string pedal steel for quick sit in type situations, |
if you would enjoy that, go for it. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 17 Sep 2015 11:09 pm
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This is the steel I use for gigs jams or anything I have to lug a psg around for.
Why settle for less than a 10 string E9 with 3pedals and 4 knees.
If you're to ashamed to take your little light weight Stage One to a gig, just do like I do, cover up the decal with some classier name like.....
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Ray DeVoe
From:
Hudson, FL
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Posted 18 Sep 2015 2:03 am Jams
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I have to agree with Chris and others that have replied to this thread. If you are going to go through the effort of taking out any equipment, take what you enjoy playing.
I live in a part of Florida where its hard to find any bands that can afford a full time steel player. As a matter of fact, its hard to find many bands period! Most of the places have one or two person acts with backing tracks or that dreaded thing called "karaoke", both of which have led to the "near death" of the pro music scene.
On the other hand, Florida is the ultimate "jam" area due to having so many senior / 55 + parks and centers which all have a "clubhouse" of some type. Quite a few of these run jams which are "open" to players of all levels. During "snowbird season", a player can find a jam any day of the week within a short driving distance. Almost all of these are the type that there will only be one steel player. If there are two, you take turns or split the afternoon. Obviously, there is no pay in this for a steel player, other than what he personally gets out of the afternoon. If I am going to go through the effort of loading up equipment and tying up a portion of my day or evening, I want to sound and play at my best as that's the only real satisfaction I am going to get out of this. That and the personal satisfaction that you are giving a little back to people who seem to enjoy and appreciate what you are doing on their behalf. There is something to be "gained" from that alone.
One of my "gig's" is playing in a "paying" seasonal band that operates it's own weekly dance during the 6 month snow bird season. This is where a little "payback" comes in from playing some of these free jam sessions. A lot of our bands following is made up of the people and players that attend and participate in the jam events. This proves to me that having the right gear and sounding good out there at the jams is important.
Ray D
_________________
Zum SD 10 Hybrid, Zum D 10 Hybrid, Emmons SD 10 P.P.
SMS: Revelation & Classic Preamps: Furlong 12" & 15" Splits.
Telonics 500 C: Quilter-T.T.12": Fender T.M. Twin |
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