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Author Topic:  Differences In Mic’ing Your Steel or Going Direct
Rick Schacter

 

From:
Portland, Or.
Post  Posted 25 Apr 2015 3:45 pm    
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Tony Prior wrote:


Why not print the sound you like ? Engineers did that for decades before DAW's became the game of the day.
t


I'm all for getting the best tone you can before hitting the record button.
But even before DAW's were the way to record, engineers weren't opposed to re-amping a track if needed.

I would suggest splitting the signal and recording one dry track, just in case.
It's nice to have options at mix down rather than risking a good performance because the tone you originally thought was great, doesn't fit in the mix...it could happen. Sad
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 26 Apr 2015 12:14 am    
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there's no right or wrong, get to the end result the best way you can.
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Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 26 Apr 2015 6:39 am    
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Tony Prior wrote:
I hope this helps and is not causing more grief !


Thanks Tony... I tend to cause my own grief..., The more I play with this stuff, and get the terminologies straight in my head, and how they all interact and affect each other, the more aware I become... I know it’s a process and will take a bit of time... I really appreciate all the “Sound” advice I’ve gotten from you and the others who’ve contributed my education.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
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Lee Gillespie


From:
Cheyenne, Wy. USA
Post  Posted 13 May 2015 7:18 am     Recording
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I always loved the sound that Dave Hartley gets on his youtube presentations. Plus being a great picker helps. Looking close at the videos... he's got a lot of toys to help get his good sound. Lee
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Charlie McDonald


From:
out of the blue
Post  Posted 13 May 2015 7:21 am    
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Dave does get a good sound.
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 13 May 2015 11:23 am     Re: Recording
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Lee Gillespie wrote:
I always loved the sound that Dave Hartley gets on his youtube presentations. Plus being a great picker helps. Looking close at the videos... he's got a lot of toys to help get his good sound. Lee


I agree totally Lee... David set the bar pretty high... Beautiful playing, beautifully done videos,... super nice guy who’s encouraged me in the past and is always an inspiration... not a bad guy to emulate, or at least try. Smile
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
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Steven Welborn

 

From:
Ojai,CA USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2015 4:24 pm    
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b0b wrote:
I've never had a great sound sound going direct from the guitar or volume pedal to the board, but I have been able to get great sounds using the Line 6 Pod XT between. That's how I record at home. I understand the Pod XT very well because I've been gigging with it for a long time.

In a real studio, I rely on the engineer's experience in miking amps. I can make my amp sound very good, and these guys have the experience of recording electric instruments every day for many years. They know what mic to use, where to place it, etc.. I don't know that stuff.

The bottom line is that your amp is a part of your instrument, as much as the wooden body is part of an acoustic guitar. You can use an amp simulator (like my Pod XT) and get great results, but you can't eliminate that electronic part of the system any more than you can eliminate the wooden resonant chamber of an acoustic guitar. A steel guitar doesn't make that sound by itself. Flat response is generally dull.

What Bob said.
Just did some recording for someone who insisted on recording the steel,as with everything else, direct. He wasnt satisfied with his past attempts amp micing. I found most of the life sucked out of the steel plus it was very brittle and sterile sounding (I suspected that would happen but this session really brought it home). He seemed happy enough so I guess I survived. IMO the steel come to life, sings and growls when the sound recycles from amp/speaker back into guitar cab/strings. But if you dont have that option... I guess one needs to make the best of it with additional amp/speaker simulator gear i.e. pod line 6, etc. Still, I dont see how any of that can really duplicate that sonic feedback/resonance factor.
I got pod line 6 on my buy list. Any other suggestions?
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2015 4:36 pm    
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I just want to mention, Steven, that I had the "original" Line 6 Pod before I bought the "Pod XT". I could not get good steel guitar tones out of the "original". So be careful not to get one of the really old Pods. It took them a while to get real versatility in the clean sounds.
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Steven Welborn

 

From:
Ojai,CA USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2015 5:18 pm    
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Thanks for the clarification. I take it you've got the red/magenta colored table top unit as opposed to XT live or XT pro( floor pedal/rack mount)
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Mark Wayne


From:
Wisconsin, USA
Post  Posted 19 Jul 2015 9:35 pm    
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I used the POD XT for many hours on the steel, and it has an excellent direct out setting and is about the most convienent device for an all-in-one package concerning it's effects, but once I went to individual pedals (Room-mate tube reverb, Rat, TC Electronics Chorus, and a Sansamp preamp from Tech 21, I achieved an even warmer more life-like signal response in going direct and live playing.

When I'm not using my Stereo Steel amp I'll use the Sansamp preamp into the PA - and even in the studio, this approach seems a bit less harsh than the POD, although the POD is hard to beat for it's leslie sounds. I have a $499 Vent pedal that doesn't sound as warm and thick as the POD. Tone is such a wide road of preference, though, so this may or may not be what you'd prefer.
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Steven Welborn

 

From:
Ojai,CA USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2015 7:47 am    
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Sansamp looks very good. Just pulled one (used) from Guitar Center for $99. I like the man n lean amp/cab sim only plus very compact.
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 20 Jul 2015 12:40 pm    
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I’m still trying to sort it all out... But have tried Direct a couple of times... here’s a couple to critique... This first one I used Garageband as the DAW... I went XLR out from my Session 500 into channel 1 of the PreSonus and then used a General out from that into the Lexicon MPX1 and then 2 outs from the Lex and back into channel’s 3 and 4 for two wet tracks to mix with the dry steel track during mixing... In The Garden

https://soundcloud.com/steelinatune/in-the-garden

And a verse of Old Rugged Cross, done the same way except with Studio One 2 as the Daw, and some recording level adjustments...

https://soundcloud.com/steelinatune/old-rugged-cross-1st-vs-sample

Don’t know if you’ll be able to hear a difference between the two or not
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 22 Jul 2015 1:51 am    
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Dale your playing is excellent, the recording is fine as well !

You got a lot of in's and out's going on ! Laughing

I'm too simple, I just plug directly into a preamp and send that to the DAW interface. Less wires for me to trip over Sad


thx for the post !

t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 22 Jul 2015 5:47 am    
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Tony Prior wrote:
Dale your playing is excellent, the recording is fine as well !

You got a lot of in's and out's going on ! Laughing

I'm too simple, I just plug directly into a preamp and send that to the DAW interface. Less wires for me to trip over Sad


thx for the post !

t


Thanks Tony... yeah there are a few, and I’m so easily confused Laughing I haven’t even figured out how to set up a headphone mix properly, and I’ve watched the video’s Embarassed ... I’ve got it so I can control how much steel and track is in the headphones, but don’t think I’ve got it labeled correctly so I’m more confused Confused I wanted to use the Lexicon for the effects instead of a plug in, so kinda had to “plug” it in... And then tomorrow, I’ve got a Revelation Tube Preamp arriving so the confusion continues... SO MUCH TO LEARN!!!... Good thing I still have a couple brain cells left willing to go along with this adventure.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2015 1:13 am    
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Dale Rottacker wrote:

Thanks Tony... yeah there are a few, and I’m so easily confused Laughing I haven’t even figured out how to set up a headphone mix properly, and I’ve watched the video’s Embarassed ... I’ve got it so I can control how much steel and track is in the headphones, but don’t think I’ve got it labeled correctly so I’m more confused Confused .


Dale, a year or so back I acquired this little gizmo for vocals, it allows the " artist" to control how much track and mic or instrument signal. This has ended many an argument when my wife records vocal tracks ! I have not used it for recording instruments ..but should.

It's an ART "MY MONITOR" , I think it's around $50...comes with a AC adapter too...

It's too simple, maybe thats why I don't use it for instruments ! Laughing



_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2015 1:45 am    
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Tony, thanks... that looks like a good little gizmo... I’ll have to check that out closer the next time I’m at GC... I finally figured out, (I think) how to make a Que./Monitor mix in the DAW... I don’t like how I’ve got it labeled cause it still doesn’t look right to me, but I have been able to get a more and less of what I want in the headphones when I record.,, though I’ve recorded without headphones and just listen through the monitors to the steel or if I want more turn on my second amp and add to taste...

This is the what I ended up with doing it just this way, but also using a Revelation Tube Preamp and Lexicon MPX1... XLR’ing the Session 500 into the PreSonus Dry and then 2 channels of Revelation/Lex and blended... I didn’t use any Eq on these, just what went in and just now started playing with plugin’s but none on these except for a little plate reverb added to the dry steel track.

Old Rugged Cross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luRMFw9K0TY

They’ll Never Take Her Love Away From Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJVjtnSgxIY&index=2&list=PL8VW-yqKTTqlmNe9zP-NtFvVHl6OkHZBa&shuffle=171
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
Post  Posted 26 Aug 2015 1:50 am    
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Tony, I might add... the biggest thing I seem to forget is to turn the Que mixes off when I’m actually mixing because I don’t think it’s part of what gets rendered and then I’m always wondering “Why does the render never sound as good as it did in the DAW?”... Laughing Laughing Laughing
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website


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