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Topic: She bit the dust |
Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 6:46 pm |
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Well after 3 years of playing an already worn out Sho-Bud Super Pro she is being put to rest for good.Things are coming apart screws are stripping out and falling out all 4 legs are extremely loose even when they are screwed all the way in the sockets it wont stay in tune and sounds like a banjo instead of steel.I have sunk so much money into this thing I refuse to spend another cent on it.Looks like a new guitar in my future I will never go the pre-owned route again unless it comes from a very close reliable source mainly someone I know personally
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 6:57 pm
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Well, "pre-owned" is one thing, and "40+ year old, beat-to-death" is another.  |
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Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 6:59 pm
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Yeah Donnie I hear ya.this thing should have not ever been offered for sale
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 8:08 pm
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Hate to say it or carp on an old pet peeve of mine, but the stripped out screws and loose leg sockets sound exactly like a guitar that was never put in a case, but carried in a vehicle set up on its legs. Vibration just weakened both the metal and the wood.
A guitar that wasn't cared for will not show its love for a future owner, sadly.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 8:34 pm
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BINGO Herb
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 8:48 pm
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Herb I here you.Previous pedal steels I have owned no matter if I was going 1 block or 100 miles I always put my guitar in its case. I have been under the hood on this guitar since the day it arrived.Its been frustrating and at times down right de-moralizing trying to get this thing to play.Herb do you know of a remedy for the stripped screws that hold the brackets for the cross shafts? I know you wont cheat wrong or defraud a brother mason would I be better off getting a new guitar?
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 8:59 pm
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Mike, what I'd recommend is filling all the existing holes, redrilling them, and replacing with all new screws. For the legs, the problem may be that the steel threaded nipple on the legs tore the crap out of the softer aluminum of the endplates. The fix would be either filling the holes and redrilling and tapping, or use a helicoil to somewhat repair the wear and tear to the existing tap.
A good idea would be to completely disassemble the instrument, tighten all screws and fill where necessary, and reassemble. Inspect all the solder joints and switches, replace if the part is only partially or intermittently working. Then very sparingly lube all parts where metal moves against metal.
It's a big job or a small one, depending on your skill level and confidence in completing the task.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 9:54 pm
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All of Herb's tips are correct, if you feel like reviving this beater guitar, my advice is to get it to a pro tech who will know all the fussy ins and outs of getting this thing rebuilt. I'd never try a job like that myself. Just reassembling correctly and in-tune takes a lot of expertise.
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E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 12:31 am
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Dap makes this product. Shoot a couple drops in the screw hole the re-apply the screw. It swells the wood up tight! Good stuff!
http://www.dap.com/images/products/hires/321_p_WDSWELL&LOCK.jpg
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Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Malcolm McMaster
From:
Beith Ayrshire Scotland
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 12:50 am
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Speak to Ricky Davis, if anyone can sort it he can.
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MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:27 am
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The problem the OP stated is a big one.. Everyone is making valid comments about repairing and rebuilding, but think about it.. To really do the job right, he would have to entirely disassemble the Bud, glue and dowel every worn hole, and most likely have to replace all the pot metal stuff with modern aircraft aluminum,.. It would cost a fortune to replace all that worn out pot metal, and that assumes the "hard parts" like the changer,legs,roller bridge,tuners, etc, are in good shape, which I doubt..If the body is really clean, it might be worth a restore for someone that really like Super Pros,but the OP doesn't sound like he does...He wants a solid trouble free steel.. A worn out SP isn't it.. My opinion, save the money you would have to spend to refurb the steel, sell the SP to a guy thats into rebuilding worn out old Buds, and has the parts to do so. Buy a new, trouble free pedal steel. IMHO, there comes a time where throwing good money after bad no longer makes sense. If the SP in question is as clapped out as stated,it will not be missed when a new steel arrives... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:38 am
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I don't think I'd replace all the pot metal: many times it'll last a LONG time.
Yeah, the legs can be helicoiled.
You can plug and redrill the screw holes.
Unless the keyhead and changer are loose, it shouldn't ALL need to come out, but just all those brackets and screws. Take pics, pull all the rods, fill the holes and attend to the helicoils while the glue dries. WiWith drive and planning, this could be a weekend project.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:41 am
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Bob does make sense. That Super Pro ain't a mid-60's Emmons. Or even a mid-70's Emmons. A complete rebuild wouldn't be worth it. And you're obviously not romantically connected to the guitar anyway.
A quick fix would be to fill the wallowed-out screw holes with toothpicks and wood putty, and put in some wider screws to tighten it up a little. Put helicoils in the endplate sockets to firm up the legs. If the threaded nipples are loose in the leg tubes, JB Weld can take care of that. It shouldn't take more than an afternoon to do those things.
Then put it up for sale, being honest as to its condition. Take the money and put it towards a better steel.
Lane posted while I was typing. I agree with him verbatim.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 5:54 am
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Lane,, The holes in those pot metal parts get egg shaped, and slop is everywhere.. They are awful. I have a had a couple of Pro I steels that I planned on "tightening up], and both wound up getting sold to guys that really wanted them, and were willing to spend whatever was needed.
A worn out SP undercarriage is a nightmare of sloppiness, and even after replacing only the broken or worn stuff, you are always waiting for the next lever bracket to or egged out bellcrank to break.. Been there done that... A lightly used SP mechanism, thats tight is a very smooth and quiet setup.. Sadly, really well kept and tight ones are hard to find these days.. The last ones I had through here were a hodgepodge of good machined aluminum replacement parts , odd but serviceable substitute parts from other brands, fairly well done homemade parts, and original pot metal.. A few of the pot metal parts were still ok, but probably 90% of the time, they were sloppy.. It was not a good system as far as durability.. It worked well, but is simply not robust and dependable.. It costs a LOT of money to replace a lot of worn stuff on a SP.. Thats why the OP sounds so disgusted,,, bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 6:06 am
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Gotcha.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 7:04 am
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Take the ol' girl out back & put her out of her misery, then pick up a nice, shiny new guitar, where you can concentrate on playing instead of what's gonna break next. Gotta know when to cut your losses.
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 7:57 am
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There are a lot of old pedal steels that should be destroyed, if only to save some kid the frustration of trying to make them work properly.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 8:59 am
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If anything, the undercarriage could be stripped and the guitar used as a D10 non-pedal steel.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 11:54 am
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Gentlemen thanks all for your input and advice. Herb said it the best I am not musically in love with this guitar. I have had it for 3 years and have spent over half of that time "under the hood". My playing is affected so to speak like Rich said I cant fully entwine myself into my practice and have an effective practice wondering if something else is gonna break.Once again I appreciate all the feedback
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 Aug 2015 2:04 pm
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I hear ya. I finally gave up on my pickup truck after one too many problems. It only needs a distributor. But I'm just done.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2015 3:39 pm worn out Steel.....
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| R U gonna Junk her out...? |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 12:38 am S.Pro
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| Once you get your next PSG, the SP can be completely taken apart and rebuilt into a S-10D. I'd put a simple 3 & 4 set up on it and use it as a practice guitar. The wood body can be redone into a really nice colored lacquer body in about any color. Parts off of the backneck can be polished and used to replace other parts. Add a pad covered in leather to match the body also. The best changer fingers can be cleaned and used also. Removing the backneck parts gives you lots of spare parts. On the other hand, there's guys out there that like to rebuild guitars from the ground up. My last project was a Carter Starter. I was determined to take a CS and make changes to it, so it would play and sound like a 4000.00 guitar. I found a way to fix the LKR problem most folks were having w/CS's and installed a George L pickup. I did several other things to it that made it play and sound good. I currently use some of those ideas on my 2014 Excel. My most recent change came from reading/studying articles that Bud Carter & Big E were discussing at one time. In closing, PSG's can be like an addiction. Once a player starts studying/learning the in and outs of guitars, it never stops. Good luck and every builder is building nice guitars. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 2:58 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| There are a lot of old pedal steels that should be destroyed, if only to save some kid the frustration of trying to make them work properly. |
I feel the same about old upright pianos that should be taken into a field and launched via catapult, but I take serious exception with
the statement regarding PSG's, a portable instrument. Some kid like me would be thrilled to get his hands on a Sho-Bud, not to play,
but to take it apart for what I could learn from it, to eventually pass it along to a competent rebuilder. It is NOT the same as a useless
upright that won't even find its way into a collection or a museum let alone a living room to enjoy a place as true art.
I think Herb has the right idea, that the problems are salvageable without huge difficulty.
I don't need a guitar to play but would love to have an old one to re-furbish like you would an old good grand.
To take it into the field and shoot it--a disgusting idea, which makes me think, b0b, and others, may just be kidding.
If that's the case, ignore my plea, but if not, send it to me! Seriously! What else are piano tuners for?! |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 4:23 am rebuilding
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I once bought an MSA SD12 that had laminated pretty badly. It was a genuine junker. So I looked & looked & documented the thing, until one day I took the plunge. I got some inlay strips off the web & some super duper birds eye maple & made a gorgeous cabinet.
Then I carefully started mounting things until the guitar was complete. It was a very nice guitar, once completed.
It was a labor of love. That was back when I didn't mind getting out of my recliner. Today, I would have called the junk guy.
But out of the ashes, I have been reinvigorated. I have just bought a S10 Sierra that I will put my Vertical Knee Lever & a new rear mountable Pad on it. I already got myself more stuff to learn, than I'll get to by next spring, but I'm out of that recliner. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 14 Sep 2015 9:28 am
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| before you butcher it, since it's worthless to you, give it to someone who wants to learn. |
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