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Topic: Sho~Bud Permanent |
Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 8:11 am |
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While home for lunch it arrived, I only had time to unpack and open the case. Here is a photo
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 8:16 am
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Sonny Curtis? From the Crickets?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Curtis
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Bob Muller
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 9:45 am
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| Looks good, and with the Fingertip pull system you can make any changes you want. Should be a great guitar. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 2:27 pm
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Oh! That's gotta be him! You oughta contact him!
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 2:33 am
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| Bob Muller wrote: |
| Looks good, and with the Fingertip pull system you can make any changes you want. Should be a great guitar. |
Yes, it does not have welded bellcranks, and the knee lever lowers both e's. The back neck is tuned to A6th, sounds really beefy. I need to do some maintenance and adjustments, but she does sound great, the no roller keyhead really adds to the sustain, wow! |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 8:58 am
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What is the scale length? I may have white fretboards for it. Long scale 1950s white fretboards that are narrow.
Also, here is the Sonny Curtis Sho-Bud from the brochure.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Roger Guyett
From:
San Francisco, Ca.
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 9:59 pm
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Mike -
....from reading the article, and confirmation from the photo in Chris Luckers post, it seems you may have bought the first double neck guitar that Shobud produced !
Or certainly one of the first 4....??? Is that the conclusion you've come to?
That's very cool !
Clearly someone...
-replaced the "permanent" welded bell cranks and modernized the mechanics. I'd love to see a pic
- cut slots in the holes that retain the stings, to make it a little easier to change strings maybe??
Anyway - fantastic !
That's a great guitar and a great piece of history. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 10:51 pm
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No, not that early. But it does not matter. It is early and had not been converted to a D9 or D10.
The scale is important. Do you have 25 1/2 inch scale, 25 or 24?
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 25 Jun 2015 1:42 am
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Mike's new guitar has 8 diamonds in the C6th deck trim whereas Chris' catalog image has only 7 diamonds. Still could be one of Sonny's guitars, though.
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Jerry Jones |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 25 Jun 2015 2:13 am
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| Chris Lucker wrote: |
No, not that early. But it does not matter. It is early and had not been converted to a D9 or D10.
The scale is important. Do you have 25 1/2 inch scale, 25 or 24? |
Chris, it is a 24" scale, and built in Nashville, so a later model. I don't see a serial#.
Roger, I now believe the first steels referred to in the older thread, (that Buddy Emmons posts in), must of been built in Madison?
JB- I did send an email with photos to Sonny's email available on his website, hopefully he will let us know if he indeed did own it.
Mike |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2015 8:29 am
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I had a cabinet end that was a Madison guitar but received the Nashville sticker when updated to fingertip cranks and changed to a D10, which of course required a shorter scale to fit the longer key head. You could see a plugged screw hole just ahead of the nut.
Does it look like your scale was shortened? Your guitar mar be a Madison that was updated.
You can see by the writing on the package that the scale of my fretboards is too long for your guitar. Sorry.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 25 Jun 2015 4:21 pm More info
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| Chris Lucker wrote: |
I had a cabinet end that was a Madison guitar but received the Nashville sticker when updated to fingertip cranks and changed to a D10, which of course required a shorter scale to fit the longer key head. You could see a plugged screw hole just ahead of the nut.
Does it look like your scale was shortened? Your guitar mar be a Madison that was updated.
You can see by the writing on the package that the scale of my fretboards is too long for your guitar. Sorry. |
Chris, Thanks for the kind offer for the fret boards, I don't mind leaving the black ones on, they look good to me.
I found the serial number on the small enplate/leg sockets, it was small and I missed it before.
The serial number is 0010 5
I imagine this should help date the guitar, I am not sure how to decipher Sho~Bud serial numbers. Thanks to everyone for all the information, I appreciate it.
Mike |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2015 4:24 pm
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Bobbe said that very few, if any, Perms had serial numbers. Maybe later into the Sixties?
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 28 Jun 2015 5:21 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Bobbe said that very few, if any, Perms had serial numbers. Maybe later into the Sixties? |
JB, Sonny returned my email and he wrote that he owned this guitar, and for me to give him a call, and he would tell me its history. Hopefully I can call him tonight. The inset endplate at the changer side actually has the serial number stamped on it near a leg socket-
I have a question for all the experts. How are these older style pickups removed? The two screws on the ends that go all the way through the pickup don't seem to do the trick. I need to pull the e9th pickup, as there is an intermittent issue with it. If you slide it ever so slightly in its current postion it sounds great, I think one of the leads to the coil taps needs resoldered.
Also the switch seems to have been resoldered, and I am not sure it is correct, any chance of a schematic being available?
Thanks, Mike
Cleaned up a bit-
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 4:30 am Update
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Well, I have not been able to determine the actual year this Permanent was built. I did talk to Sonny Curtis on the phone about it though. He was very nice, and excited to talk about it and steel guitars in general. He still has the original bill of receipt for the first Sho-bud he bought back in the mid 50's. He seemed to remember that the early Buds didn't have serial numbers. While talking to him, he looked for the receipt but couldn't find it. He was proud to tell me it was signed by Shot Jackson. He also told me he has glass display cases with all of his saved memorabilia from his time playing with George Jones and Tammy Wynette.
He also remebered the name of the man he sold his Permanent to in the mid 60's. He was from Texas and his name was Jet Fellows, in New Brownsville,Texas.
I realize the diamond inlay is not the same as on the Sonny Curtis Sho-Bud on the original brochure. Sonny said that he at one time located his original Via the internat. He said a guy in California had it, but has since lost his contact info.
He seemed to believe that the signature in the case was from his original Permanet, my only guess is that the case got swapped out some where along the way, so it remains a mystery to me at this point. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 12:56 pm
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"How are these older style pickups removed?"
I think the pickups are mounted the same way as Fingertip pickups? If so, the pups are fastened to a plate that fits inside the changer housing. Three screws hold that plate.
one screw is in the middle in front of the pup, Two screws behind the pup in front of the pillow blocks. You may have to remove the changer to get the pup and plate out. Not sure?
Chris?
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:16 pm
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Yes. That is how those Stratosphere pickups are mounted -- on a plate. The Idea carried over to Emmons, except with the earliest Emmons (Number 2) which had its pickup mounted to the cabinet instead of the neck.
Remove the casting to get the pickup out.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:18 pm
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Thanks Chris! I was pretty sure but not positive. I sold my Perm to James before I did any work on it. But I did have an F-tip pup that looked like these Perm pups.
Thanks, JB
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:35 pm
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Probably did not look like those. Sho-Bud was making their own pickups by fingertip time.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:38 pm
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Well, yeah, I know. The early pups were Statospheric(?) But this guitar seems to have pups that look like the ones made by Shot, and fastened to a plate. The plate actually gives you a lot of options as to height and angle, don't you think?
John
_________________
Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2015 2:42 pm
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Yes, the plate idea was a good one. They probably just wanted to do what Paul Bigsby did. If you look at the first guitars shot Jackson made from scratch -- DALAND pedal steels -- they are very much like Bigsbys.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.
Last edited by Chris Lucker on 23 Aug 2015 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 23 Aug 2015 4:33 am
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Thank you John and Chris!
I was able to remove the pickup as you described and tighten it back down unto the mounting plate. The pickup internally lost its coil tap abilities, though it sounds great hooked up with the tap wire (11k ohms).
I am surprised that this steel can handle an E9th tuning with minimal string breakage... |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2015 9:40 am
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I had Al Udeen's 1957 Sho-Bud -- he said there were two made when he ordered his. The pickup readings for the 9 string pickups added in 1959 were:
Inside neck E9 8.6K and tap was not working
Outside C6 was 8.4K and 15.6K
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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