| Author |
Topic: tuning to 440 Buddys tuning |
Jim Hoke
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2015 6:15 pm |
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| Okay, what confuses me is the term "lower your 3rds". This means the G#'s obviously and the lever that raises 4 and 8 a half step. How about the A pedal raise on 5 and 10 for when those notes are the 3rd of the four chord? And what about the lever that lowers 4 and 8 when those notes are the 3rd of the five chord? And what about 1 and 7 when they're the third of the chord that has 9 as the root? |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 15 Jun 2015 1:44 am
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Me, too. Jean is still going strong, isn't she? Our old keyboard player, Ed Synan, left us to join Jean Shepard's band, back in the 80's. Ya done good, Ed!
Last I heard, he was doing the Moe Bandy show in Branson.
Tuning--a major 3rd is supposed to be 14 cents sharp, correct? And a minor 3rd is 14 cents flat? |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2015 5:56 am
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Jim, One size doesn't fit all. Never found a "pat" formula that would do that.
The "key" is to be in tune with whom ever or what ever your playing with. Raise , lower or tweak whatever you need to accomplish it. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 15 Jun 2015 7:19 am
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To realize that lowering the thirds means somewhere between ET and JI, which has a range.
Going with a meantone tuning is, as b0b says, a reduced fault tuning, more room, because you're
in the middle of JI and ET.
Considering that you are designing a tuning just as equal temperament was invented,
you will reach a compromise, your own tampered tuning. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 6:18 am
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Wow, Thanks everyone for your input, I really like the simpicity of this tuning, I tuned a real nice steel to this also and it works even better for me with other players,
Bruces advice on learning to play in whatever tuning you use was a little sketchy to me at first but now I completely understand what hes talking about, "like a new player almost" the ear heres it differently which also makes you play a little different, to me for the better actually...
Thats my update.
Thanks
oh about the tuning:
do as they say with pedals down,
The 3 and 6 to me look like -6 to -12 I have a cheap tuner, whatever your ear favors...
To learn it you have to have an ear and play with it for awhile to grasp all combinations with pedals and levers and make adjustments, you will hear it when its wrong for sure. Its Very easy
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 6:47 am
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your guitar is in tune, when what you play sounds good, no matter which method you use... a lot depends on how you play, I always tuned 440...I remember one time I was at the studio session with Forrest Lee Jr., at his studio, and he told me I was so in tune it made him throw up lol ... I respect Forrest, and to me he is one of the best guitars players I have ever known, so that meant a lot to me... another time I was at the session in Nashville, and the whole thing recorded before me was out of tune, there was no way I could play in tune, 440 or not...few days later I heard that album playing at Tootsies, and it didn't sound too bad at all...so, what do I know...
_________________
https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 1:30 pm
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| Quote: |
One size doesn't fit all. Never found a "pat" formula that would do that.
The "key" is to be in tune with whom ever or what ever your playing with. Raise , lower or tweak whatever you need to accomplish it. |
I wholeheartedly agree. You must tune according to the situation and there are no two alike. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 1:36 pm
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
Jim, One size doesn't fit all. Never found a "pat" formula that would do that.
The "key" is to be in tune with whom ever or what ever your playing with. Raise , lower or tweak whatever you need to accomplish it. |
Yup, that's the true answer! Go to the head of the class, Tom.  And in the ol' days, this is exactly what players did. These days, though, a lotta players just want an "easy way out", a short-cut, so they try to rely on charts, fancy tuners, offsets, deefenbakers or whatnots. Problem is, you gotta be in tune with the group...not with a meter, chart, offset, or digitalized deefenbaker.
| Quote: |
| I tuned it with the tuner, but it still sounds like it's out of tune? |
Guess what guys? If it sounds out of tune, it is out of tune! Regardless of what your expensive digitalized tuner dingus says. Tuning is a skill, just like playing, and...I regret to say...it must be learned - just like playing.  |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 5:03 pm
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Donnie, you are so right. I know couple steel players that can set down at an out of tune steel and make it sound in tune.
I've tried every tuning method there is I guess in my 25 years of playing. The one that works for me is E's 440 with pedals down and tune the beats out of every pull and lower on the guitar, including C6th, no beats anywhere. I find it strange that different people use different methods tuning. One of the most in tune guys I know tunes beats out like I do.
What ever your tuning method may be, you have to do most of it with your ears and hands. I find myself using to much bar pressure at times but have learned to compensate for what ever pressure I use. To each his own I guess but on and extra note, I have experimented with 440 straight up tuning for probably years and it always sound out of tune. Maybe I need to tune my ears, lol.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Jun 2015 5:36 pm
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Right, Henry. What some players don't understand is why someone else's method or settings won't just automatically work for them. Truth is, they probably would - if they had the same guitar, the same string guages, the same tuning and pedal setup, the same bar, the same surroundings, and the same hands and feet.
All of that stuff affects how the guitar has to be tuned.  |
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DG Whitley
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Posted 22 Jun 2015 6:02 am
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...I guess I might be opening myself up here but if I get one or maybe two strings in tune to what I'm playing with, and then tune the others off those, I would be more likely to be in tune as a whole (at least for that particular moment)?
It does seem I come up pretty good that way, but again not saying my ears are in your league.
That being said, I agree, there is no one method that is going to work for everybody every time, but it could be a good base to start with.
Just my 2 cents, YMMV. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 22 Jun 2015 6:12 am
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Craig, from your numbers, you're in the range, close to b0b's meantone chart.
| b0b wrote: |
| Tab: |
lower open raise
F# 0 G +12.5
D +10 D# -7.5
G# -5 A +7.5
D# -7.5 E +5 F -12.5 F# 0
A# -10 B +2.5 C# -2.5
G# -5 A +7.5
F# 0
D# -7.5 E +5 F -12.5
C# -2.5 D +10
B +2.5 C# -2.5 |
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| Damir Besic wrote: |
| another time I was at the session in Nashville, and the whole thing recorded before me was out of tune, there was no way I could play in tune, 440 or not... |
All of this precision of course applies only to ideal conditions, which leaves out most places.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 22 Jun 2015 11:34 am
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Charlie, The only thing I know is everything is +-0 with exception to the 3 and 6 strings tuned open to my ear 337 or -6 to -12. When the pedals are down 3 and 6 are +-0 while 4 and 8 are also tuned to +-0 with pedals down and thats it. I cant say right or wrong here just sounds right to me.
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Jake Hoffman
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2015 3:59 pm
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| Unlike JS Bach (The Well-Tempered Clavier (German: Das Wohltemperierte Klavier)), we play with bar. Use it! |
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Joe Goldmark
From:
San Francisco, CA 94131
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 8:05 pm
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I tune the Es slightly sharp (441.5-442) and then tune out all the beats. I think this is similar to guys who tune the E with the pedals down. However, in the studio with a keyboard, I like to tune to the key of the song.
Joe |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 23 Jun 2015 8:50 pm
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| I tuned to the 440 tuning today and didn't like it at all. It just didn't seem to sound right to ME. I played alomg with a bass, which again to me, can sound a little muddy and not exact and the tuning sounded just OK. But, when I played along with a guitar, I felt like I was chasing the pitch to even the notes. I'm going back to my older Newman tuning. I've used that tuning forever and it hasn't failed me yet, except when I played with a piano in a studio. I had to tune to it to get the tracks to sound right. The piano sounded in tune with itself, but, everybody had to tune with it to make it all work. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 4:10 am
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Joe you mention tuning out all the beats, Ive never heard of this , is there a definition somewhere I can grasp the meaning of this. Im clueless???
John I completely understand the frustration and why you went back, Its what your used to hearing,
its like relearning the guitar again but the amount of time it takes is a whole lot less, the factor seems to be letting yourself play to it , and chasing the pitch like a new player is quite interesting , its all good as long as im behind the wheel of this thing.
_________________
SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 4:30 am
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"Tuning out the beats" is discussed on the Forum frequently.
Detune your (5)B string just a bit. Play (4)E and (5)B. You may hear a low-frequency warble in the sound which is caused by them not quite being in tune. Pulling the 5 string back in tune will cause the beats to subside. |
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Craig Schwartz
From:
McHenry IL
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Posted 24 Jun 2015 4:32 am
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Thanks Les
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME.... |
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