You guys that use the Franklin/Johnson change...

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I'm looking to incorporate this change (as well as a couple others) into my tuning; I have a Sierra All-Pull.

1 - F# - G#
2 - D# E
7 - F# - G#

Looking at a few copedents, I see some guys (Mike Johnson, I believe) has this change on the LKR & he moved the E - Eb to the RKL.

A few others are putting this change (1,2,7) on the RKL.

Are there pros/cons to either placement? I personally don't care for E - Eb in the RKL position.

I also want to lower 5, 10 B - Bb, and also lower 3, 6 G# - G/ G# - F#.

These changes will be on 4 knees & 2 verticals.

I know a lot of this is personal preference, but I'm just looking for some comments/suggestions from some of you gents that have already done this, so I can make an informed decision without a lot of trial/error.

Thanks in advance! Smile

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Sierra Crown D-10

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I put it on a pedal, so I can combine it with the whole tone lower of 2.
Heres me using the hell out of it.
1st and 2nd string raise demo, The Other Woman: http://youtu.be/XUykptG6DBQ
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks Lane,

I appreciate the info. Great playing, btw!

That 0 pedal setup brings another option into the mix - not sure if I want to do that or not, but it is an interesting move.

Also, you mentioned having it set up to work with the "split", I assume so you can drop the second string with a knee lever?

Can you explain that? How does one set their guitar up like that?
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Sierra Crown D-10

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

My RKR lowers 2 to C#, so if I raise to E, the whole step lower takes it near D.
Since I don't think the Sierra has the endplate screws, to have the D tunable would require a rod from the shaft that lowers 2 to the RAISE finger of 2.
Tune the D of the raise & lower with the lowering rod, and when you release the raise the C# will likely be flat, and you raise it back up with the extra rod, tuning the C# with the raise rod.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Here's what has worked well for me from deep in the heart of Corry, PA!

And a few tabs that I use it for with sound files:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/E9%201st%202nd%20%207th%20String%20Raise%20Tab.html

Tim Russell · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Lane ,

Thanks for that info. While I understand that in theory, I guess I would need to see a diagram for it to make more sense to me, when/if the time comes that I need to do that.

Greg,

lol - I've previously been to your site, and was actually looking at your copedent for ideas even before starting this thread. Nice sound clips on there too.

I notice that you only have one string move on several of the pedals/knees. I guess I'm not understanding the whole picture, but it would seem to me that I would want to move both octave strings, such as the P7/ G# to G, on the 6th string. Also the RKLR B to Bb on the 10th.

When I once had a guitar w/ 6 knees back in the early 80's, the 5/10 and 3/6 were duplicated, along with others. Maybe that was just the accepted thinking of that time, and not the current mindset.
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Sierra Crown D-10

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Tim, many people don't bother pulling octave strings because they just don't use one of them. I hardly ever use my tenth string A# lower. The lever would be easier to actuate if I struck off the tenth string function.

As to splits, here's a beautiful description of them in another thread http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=177022
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Mike Fried · From: Nashville, TN, USA

Tim, the only reason I can see for having the 1,2,7 raises on LKR instead of RKL would be to enable using it with 2,9 lowers on RKR. I can see the usefulness of that, but for myself, I don't think I want to relearn my knee lever locations so late in life Smile

. As for your lowering 3 to G and 6 to F# on the same lever, you would lose the ability to split your 6th string to G (with P2, extremely useful) and have a useable 3rd string note with it. For that matter, you wouldn't be able to use 3 and 6 at the same time at all when it's engaged. I get a high G with a "feel" half-stop on the 1st string whole-step raise on RKL (where it starts to raise 2 to E and lower 6 to F#) - way more useful to me than lowering 3 but YMMV, of course.
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Visit my music page at http://facebook.com/drfried

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Lane said:

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I have the split set up. Seriously, check out the video. When I put the split on, I'd had blues in mind, but The Other Woman just worked well for the split.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I have watched your video. Nice. I'll have to watch more closely. How does the split work? I would assume that the extra rod would go on the 2nd string lower lever. But wouldn't that take the C# change a little sharp when activating the lever by itself?
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The extra rod method works on the principle that, as a string gets tighter, it reacts more slowly. This means that it takes more travel to drop E to D than it does to drop D# to C#.
So, like all other extra rod splits, the split (in this case, D) gets tuned with the lowering rod of your lever, and if the lever and pedal go to D, when you release the pedal the C# will be flat, so the raise rod on the lever pulls it back up to C#.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

DG Whitley · Posted 18 May 2015 10:20 am

...I sorta wanted it all, so here is how I did it:

...yeah, I know some folks think it's overkill, maybe Greg C. understands....[/img]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Here is a split diagram from Buddy Emmons.

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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

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