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Topic: Unintended harmonic overtones |
Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 8:37 am |
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I've played on and off for many years, but I'm still struggling with tone and technique. Recently I've encountered an issue with unintended string noise....wolf tones and harmonics. I've been gigging and practicing more lately, so maybe it's that I'm paying more attention, but it seems like this is new...and it's driving me nuts.
After a lot of troubleshooting, swapping amps, etc, I've pretty much identified the issue as harmonics that I didn't intend to play. When I'm picking over any harmonic sweet spots relative to my bar position, I create a harmonic. It's worse when I pick-block because the vibration is to the bar side of my pick, so palm muting doesn't silence it. Those harmonic spots get pretty close together up by my right hand, and of course they change as the bar moves so it's hard to avoid them.
I'm playing a MSA Vintage XL S10 through a Session 400. The noise is there even if I play unplugged, so I don't think it's electronic. I first "noticed" it after swapping out my stock pickup for a E66. I originally thought it was the strings...I was trying SIT strings for the first time. Also, I'd loosened them to install the pickup so thought that might have had an effect. Having a gig that night, I replaced them with a set of D'Addarios which was all the local guitar shop had. No difference.
So is it just my poor technique? New strings? When I wasn't playing much, the strings didn't get changed very often. I feel like I'm questioning everything I thought I'd learned..... |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 8:53 am
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I'm always pleased when I get accidental overtones or harmonics. I just wish I was better at consistently causing them. I notice them more often when I dig in.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 8:57 am
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| Picking over a harmonic location will usually cause harmonics. It sounds like you're moving your right hand up and down the neck as you're playing. But for most playing, that shouldn't be done. Find a comfortable spot near the pickup and keep your picking hand there. Other causes of unwanted harmonics are poor muting of the strings behind the bar, and grooves or burrs on the changer tops. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 8:58 am
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make sure your left hand is damping the strings behind the bar and attack the strings solidly when you pick with your right hand.
old strings are actually better for eliminating unwanted harmonics. |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 22 Mar 2015 9:19 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Picking over a harmonic location will usually cause harmonics. It sounds like you're moving your right hand up and down the neck as you're playing. But for most playing, that shouldn't be done. Find a comfortable spot near the pickup and keep your picking hand there. Other causes of unwanted harmonics are poor muting of the strings behind the bar, and grooves or burrs on the changer tops. |
Donny, I generally DO play in one spot. If I gave the impression that I move my right hand around, it was only in troubleshooting where the ringing overtones were coming from. The picking position that seems natural is with the back of my hand somewhere over the pickup and my picks contacting the strings between the 22nd and 24th fret markers. But with harmonic spots being multiples of 5,7, and 12 frets, that single hand position can create harmonics for a lot of bar positions.
I don't think I have a problem with muting the strings behind the bar, but I'll experiment. The thing is that my bar technique has been essentially the same for the past 20 years and yet this seems to be a new problem.
I wasn't aware that grooves in the changer tops could cause harmonics. While I don't remember seeing excessive wear when I changed the strings, I'll check that out.
Update:
So in messing around a little more, I can say that it's definitely related to or most pronounced when I'm pick-blocking. As soon as I mute the string with my pick, it sets off a harmonic. If I play the exact same lick but lower the bar one "fret", everything is clean. I know that picking the string at a harmonic location is one method to get chimes, but this seems out of my control. If I have to palm block to mute the unwanted harmonics, what's the point of pick blocking. I must be doing something wrong. (Old dead strings are looking better and better.....) |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 5:43 am
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| I find that if I am slow lifting my picking hand, or do not lift it level, the slight touch of your palm or back fingers can create a kind of pinch harmonic... Just a random thought. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 6:05 am
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Sounds like you need to be more definite/assertive with your blocking, as if you're touching it enough to change its vibration, but not enough to kill it.
OR perhaps move your hand just a bit one way or the other so that it's not at exactly a harmonic point relative to the bar.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 8:52 am
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Find the "sweet spot" on your steel, down by the changer (it's where you get the loudest response from the string) and keep your right hand there. Also, make sure that your left hand is on the strings behind the bar to damp any unwanted harmonics.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Tommy Mc
From:
Middlesex VT
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Posted 23 Mar 2015 3:28 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Sounds like you need to be more definite/assertive with your blocking, as if you're touching it enough to change its vibration, but not enough to kill it.
OR perhaps move your hand just a bit one way or the other so that it's not at exactly a harmonic point relative to the bar. |
Thanks, Lane. I think this is the area I need to focus. I've been putting everything under the microscope, and one thing I noticed is that my thumb pick is attacking the string at an angle. Only the edge is striking the string rather than flat-on. Less muting, more prone to creating a pinch-harmonic.
In a way, this might make sense.....until a few months ago, I had one favorite thumb pick which I'd literally used for years. I don't know where I got it, and there was no brand name stamped on it. Well it "bit the shed" and I replaced it with some Dunlops. Nice picks, but maybe a slightly different fit. I guess I got some adjusting to do.....
Thanks to all who took the time to help. |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2015 9:11 am
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Hi Tommy,
Perhaps you've solved your problems for now. I often play a guitar similar to yours (an MSA Vintage XL or an MSA "The Universal" 12 string), and I get a lot of overtones as well. For the music I tend to play, I welcome every little harmonic that comes along, intended or not, and try to do something to make that aspect of the momentary sound "sing" or at least have a musical purpose.
However, when you don't want to hear those overtones, it might help to play with a more forceful picking style (though you may have tried this already). That way, the fundamental is drowning out the overtones.
I hope this helps.
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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