Relative positions of pedals and lever?

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Specifically, my left/left knee lever (LKL) makes it awkward to roll my foot onto the A pedal without actuating the lever as well, or should I say it requires some contortions that I struggle with. When viewed straight on, the lever sits about halfway between the A and B pedals. Does this sound normal? It seems to me it wants to be further left to give better access to the A pedal, however, if I moved it it would have to sit to the left of the A pedal so the crossbar would fit between the A and B crossbars. I hope this makes sense....

richard burton · From: Britain

Position your body to the right, so that your centerline is in line with the 17th fret, not the center of the instrument, and this will alter the angle of your left leg, making it easier to operate the pedals without accidentally actuating a knee lever.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Many guitars put that lever even farther right than that.
It's a matter of getting used to a fairly unaccustomed set of motions.
Richard Burton offers good advice, too. I'd really recommend lessons in person, they can help with getting used to these machines.
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Justin Emmert · From: Greensboro, NC

Many guys (including me) raise the A pedal a bit higher than the B pedal as well for a few different ergonomic and playability reasons. It may help.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Are you a new player? If so, does your knee move to the right or left when you rock on and off the pedals? Your knee should not move at all, or barely at all. I see this in just about every new player I have seen. A good way that I found to help stop this, is to hold your knee with your hands so it won't move. Then practice bending your ankle right and left as if you were at your guitar (the preferred place), sitting down anywhere. You want all your pedal movements to be made with your ankle, not the whole leg. You need to train your ankle to make those movements effortlessly and pailessly, although it may hurt at first.
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

What Richard said. Exclamation

But with that in mind, some guitars do make it difficult to do the rocking motion because the knee levers are too far to the left or right. Probably 75%-90% of your playing involves the A&B pedals, so ideally, your lower leg should not be angled (that is, your knee should be in-line with your heel) when you're activating A&B pedals, and not activating a knee lever. Smile

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Thanks for the great advice. Yes I am a new player, and unfortunately the nearest teacher is about 5 hours from me.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

If centering around the 15th fret (or so) and raising the A-pedal doesn't get you there, you can change the angle of the knee levers on most guitars by turning a small adjustment screw.

Any time you get a new guitar, you'll want to custom fit the angle on all the of the levers so they hang in the right spot when not engaged. Personal preference will dictate. I like them as close as possible without accidentally engaging one while moving between pedals.

But before adjusting, you do want to start out sitting in the position that Richard suggested. Most newbies don't know this and sit at the center of the instrument. In the correct position, your right leg will be perpendicular to the back apron and your left leg will hit at about a 45-degree angle. I don't know, historically, how this all evolved, but most steel makers position the left knee levers assuming players will sit this way.

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Cool tips. I'll try the right leg perpendicular and left at 45deg, also lowering the B pedal a little and I'll look at the movement in my left knee and also my ankle twist.
I've been sitting both legs normal, and centered around the 12th "fret". No wonder it seems all wrong.
Thanks for the help folks.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

HI Marty yes move a little more to the right around the 15th, lower the B pedal a bit and probably raise the A pedal a bit so you can roll your ankle to the left without catching the B pedal - you'll find you won't have to move your leg quite so far to the left.
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Bill C. Buntin · Posted 17 Dec 2014 11:13 am

Marty one of any of us could do Skype with you and get you set up right. I would echo to sit behind the 15th fret. right leg perpendicular to the guitar body. The idea is to make the ergonomics become second nature. Once you get into playing, you won't have time to be looking at anything but your left hand.

~Bill

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Well heck.... I was doing it all wrong. Tried the right leg perpendicular/left leg 45degrees thing and it made a huge difference. Doing that also put my right hand in a nice comfortable position. Tonight I'll tweak the A and B pedals and life will be wonderful again.
I also took the bottom off my Dunlop volume pedal (the old style one) and worked out how I can trim nearly an inch off the height of it! Yes!
All I gotta do now is learn to play the darn thing!

Bob Moore · From: N. Rose, New York

I have a older (MSA D10) and have the same problem. I was able to adjust the LL but not the LR. The adjustment doesn't let me properly adjust lever so I don't move it accidently
bob

Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

I have problems with ankle movement re: the B pedal / E lever actuation. My B pedal is a little higher than most, so I'm not depressing the A pedal too, as my ankle rotates well to the outside (A side) but limited to the inside (B side).

It takes trying it till you get it the way that works for you.
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Jim Reynolds · From: Franklin, Pa 16323

Well, I finally had to do it. I had seen this words so many times on the forum, I had to look it up and find out what it meant. WOW what a wonderful word, they didn't have all these words when I went to school. Anyway now I know what is being said.
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steve takacs · From: beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)

Jim, these Forum members can be so helpful, which is particularly important when you are learning the correct habits. steve t

Jack Mansfield · From: Reno, NV

I have always had trouble with e and f levers on my left leg. Any guitar that came that way I have always had them put on the right side and the d lever on the left. So I only use three knees any way.

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Heck.... my 67 year old left ankle (my right one is the same age) is having a devil of a job learning to twist ...... it's got about as much twist in it as um ... er.... a non-twisty thing! And I might have to make a little wooden platform to raise my heel about an inch or so. I just cant bend my ankle back enough for the heel to sit on the ground without depressing the pedals. I cant lower the pedals any more because the C pedal is right to the floor to get the correct raise. Maybe I can figure a way of altering the crank ratios some more to decrease the pedal travel required, and this would enable the pedals to sit closer to the ground.
Excuse me, I'm just thinking out loud......

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Marty, if your guitar has the option, move the rods farther out on the bellcrank. It will decrease the pedal travel at the cost of making it stiffer.
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Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Many guitars have an adjustment on the knee lever that allows you to change the point where it engages, and the point where it stops. What brand of guitar are you playing?

On my Desert Rose, the angle of the knee lever is set by a little set screw under the lever. By combining that setting with the lever stop, I can get a comfortable lever position without changing the bell crank action.

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Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Hi Bob,
It's not the levers that are the problem, it's the pedals. With my left heel on the floor, my left ball (of the foot, of the foot!!) is resting on the pedals, and is activating them slightly.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Oh. I thought you were talking about the position of the LKL knee lever. Guess I misunderstood. Sorry for the diversion.
Embarassed

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Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Marty, if you can't lower your pedals any more, maybe try wearing shoes with a substantial heel.

Er... And you do know how to lower the pedals without messing with the bellcrank, right? Just checking...

Marty Forrer · From: New Zealand

Hi Tucker,
Yep, I have completely stripped and rebuilt this PSG, including the changer and all the mechanicals. Cowboy boots would be good for the high heel, but I dont have any, so I'll build a little heel platform. I can bend my foot back enough, but it hurts like heck, and I can only maintain it for 30 seconds.

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