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Topic: The wait (or weight) of upgrading... |
Stephen Rethmeier
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 9:44 am |
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Hello,
I have a couple beginner questions, but first a little background. I originally started taking PS lessons about 2 years ago from John McClung. I only lasted about 4 lessons before finally getting so frustrated I just put the instrument away and focused on 8-string lap slide. That whole time though I kept hearing that pedal steel calling out to me as it were.
About a month ago I pulled it out to see how it felt. Much to my surprise, it wasn’t nearly as challenging as I remembered. In fact, I was so pleased with the basic sounds I was getting out of it, I asked my wife if I could play it with her at an event she had the next day (she is a music director at a local church). Since she was in the next room and could hear me, she was amenable. I didn’t embarrass myself too badly and I have since played out with it a couple more times. I always bring a couple lap slides with me as back up, but I haven’t had to pull any of them out yet.
So I’ve gotten really hooked and can’t get enough of it. I’ve been watching lesson videos by Joe Wright on the Sierra website and playing/practicing everyday.
My questions:
I have a ’98 Carter Pro SD-10 (4 pedals, 5 levers) that John helped me buy when I started with him. From what I’ve read, this appears to be a pretty decent guitar. But is this something I’d eventually want to upgrade from, or do people keep and play this model for years and years? What are the considerations for upgrading? Is it mostly about tone or mechanics? Are there models or brands that are known for being “easier†to play? Smoother? Lighter (see below)?
I understand there’s some subjectivity with respect to the above, but I guess I’m equating what I’m asking to the regular guitar world—i.e., if a guy is learning on a Squire Strat and asks if he’ll want to upgrade it some day, most would probably say yes. But if he were learning on an ’82 335, most would probably say, “why would you want to upgrade that?†In the real world, he would keep the 335, and buy another guitar…and then another…and another… The benefit that guy would have is he can go to 20+ different guitar stores in the LA area and play a huge cross section of instruments. Not the case with pedal steel (I don’t think). Do a lot of you guys own multiple pedal steels?
Another thing I’m wondering about is the weight. The Pro weighs right at 50 lbs. in the case. That’s heavy to me, but is that heavy by PS standards? I recently read some threads on the new Quilter and Milkman amps where the weight of them was a big selling point. That made me laugh a little because none of my tube amps are anywhere near as heavy as that Carter. I recently bought a 4-wheel flat dolly to use for moving the Carter and gear from my car to gigs. Then yesterday I read about someone saying they use a soft bag and carry their PS on their back. Is the Carter the PS equivalent of a Les Paul or are they all equally as heavy, give or take a few lbs.?
Thanks for reading this.
Steve
_________________
Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyless, Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyed, Telonics TCA 500C, Quilter Steelaire, Magic Fender clone, 1937 Model 59 Rick 6, 1940 Epiphone 7-string Zephyr, Oahu 6, 8+/- regular guitars, Kawai baby grand, two cats... |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 10:13 am
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Hi Steve. Actually, Carter is a fairly lightweight steel. I wouldn't be expecting to find anything much lighter in a pro model steel.
Carter is full-on pro. IMO the only reason to get a different guitar is because there is something in particular that you want. A p/p or a Sho-Bud, for instance. Or any other name, for that matter. But these choices are about choices, not upgrading.
The bottom line (again, IMO) is that there are many reasons to get a different steel including that you are not happy with what you have. But with a Carter (presumably well maintained, in good working condition) you should not be looking for another guitar just because what you have is not good enough. It's plenty good. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 10:23 am
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| agreed! |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 10:31 am
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It's can be tough to "upgrade" what you have. I bought two really nice, new, pro model pedal steels sight unseen when I wanted to upgrade from my old 1967 Emmons guitar. One of the new guitars had an extreme lack of sustain and one, although precisely built, was not engineered to have even pedal pull pressure and positive stops. Five or so guitars later I ended up with a Sho-Bud built by Paul Franklin Sr. that I loved and lately an MSA Legend that really satisfies me. Some guitars I would hate right away and some I would like but only after making some mechanical or tone adjustments over time. Even small things like the guitar being slightly the wrong height, or some part of the under carriage hitting your legs, how hard the pedals are to press, how wide the pedals are, how they are spaced, string spacing, sound of the pickups, sustain, stability, the list is almost endless.
Suffice it to say that any of the modern guitars and many of the older ones are really great and probably not the limiting factor in your playing. Don't get sucked into buying a new guitar just for the looks or the weight. Look carefully at what copedant you might want to grow into and buy all the pedals and knee levers up front. Perhaps you will need to play a TON of guitars over a period of a few years to convince yourself that a certain one really stands out for you. This can avoid buyer's remorse and make sure you don't go through buying a bunch of guitars that are no better than what you have. Also perhaps some minor modification of your guitar will make it more suitable to you. |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 2:08 pm
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Stephen...why on earth upgrade?? You have a good pro steel there, made by Bud Carter. If you do want to upgrade give it a few years...you have a good axe there. 
Micky "scars" Byrne U.K. |
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Edward Rhea
From:
Medford Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 2:20 pm
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Steve, my first psg, a marlen d10 had 1 lever. It's still a pro model, but obviously I've chosen to "upgrade" it to 4-5 knee levers(getting done now). You've a really great steel, no need to upgrade..? BTW, this thing weighs easily, 75 lbs in the case!
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“TONESNOB†|
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Allen Peterson
From:
Katy, Texas
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 2:35 pm
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I bought a Carter D10 8X5 in 2000. In 2008 I got the urge to "upgrade." I purchased a Rains D10 8X6. While I really like the Rains, I keep going back to the Carter. The only "upgrade" I made was the weight. The Rains is so heavy I can hardly get it upstairs to my music room.
Don't ditch the Carter, unless you want a different sound or another neck.
Allen Peterson
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2008 D10 Rains Pedal Steel, 2000 D10 Carter Pedal Steel, BR-9 Lap Steel, Nashville 400, Nashville 112, '65 Fender Twin Re-issue, MB 200, Telonics Volume Pedal
Last edited by Allen Peterson on 23 Nov 2014 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 2:46 pm
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The only upgrade you could do from there is to get a double neck. That comes with a weight upgrade as well. If the Carter seems heavy to carry, try Kevin Hatton's split cases. That's a mighty fine horn you got there. My MSA D-10 weighs 84 pounds in the case,but plays like a dream with mighty fine tone. If I upgraded, it would be to a lighter guitar.
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 2:49 pm
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Well said Allen, very sensible man
Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.
www.micky-byrne.co.uk
Sho-Bud and Carter universals.Fender telecaster b-bender. Gianinni hand made Brazilian electro classical.
Ovation 2-octave Viper electro acoustic. Nashville 400 in seperate cabs with a neo-mag speaker. 2x Roland Cube80XL's. lots of Boss stomp pedals.Goodrich match/bro. |
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Stephen Rethmeier
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 3:26 pm
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Thanks men for the replies, direction, and advice. I'm glad to hear its a good guitar and to have a reference for the weight.
"Suffice it to say that any of the modern guitars and many of the older ones are really great and probably not the limiting factor in your playing."
Amen, Greg, to the "limiting factor" part. And I appreciate the gracious "probably."  Sounds like a great idea to hang on to this one until the limiting factor isn't my fingers, feet, head, and ears...
_________________
Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyless, Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyed, Telonics TCA 500C, Quilter Steelaire, Magic Fender clone, 1937 Model 59 Rick 6, 1940 Epiphone 7-string Zephyr, Oahu 6, 8+/- regular guitars, Kawai baby grand, two cats... |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 3:26 pm
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Carters are excellent instruments. There is no reason for you to ever switch to anything else. As the saying goes, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 3:27 pm
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What they all said. Other guitars may have more attention paid to the cosmetics, but Bud and John designed that to be an excellent machine with great tone.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2014 6:51 pm
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| You might consider a SU12 Carter........about the same weight that would be my only considration from where you are. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2014 9:32 am
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| Steve, you might consider a split-case, which puts the guitar itself into one case, with the legs, pedal-bar and rods into the other case. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 24 Nov 2014 9:45 am Re: The wait (or weight) of upgrading...
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| Stephen Rethmeier wrote: |
Do a lot of you guys own multiple pedal steels?
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Some of us do. I have 2. Same make and model.
Perhaps you can put a set of wheels in your case, or buy a case that already has them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 24 Nov 2014 10:03 am Re: The wait (or weight) of upgrading...
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I had my Sho-Bud case converted to 2 cases...luckily my Carter fits it too
Micky "scars" Byrne U.K. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Nov 2014 3:56 pm
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I agree with everyone else...what you have should be okay for many years. With your short time "in the seat", it's way too early to think about upgrading.
Split cases will make it easier to carry, but no guitar you can buy is gonna make it easier to play. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Nov 2014 8:23 pm
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| Quote: |
| hang on to this one until the limiting factor isn't my fingers, feet, head, and ears... |
Admittedly, 200-year warranties are scarce even in this line. Most people end up switching around after a while, usually before 200 years, due to basic human squirminess. And you hear an awful lot about "the one that got away".... |
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Stephen Rethmeier
From:
Nashville TN
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Posted 25 Nov 2014 6:55 am
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| David Mason wrote: |
| Most people end up switching around after a while, usually before 200 years, due to basic human squirminess. And you hear an awful lot about "the one that got away".... |
As a guy who used to buy a new 6-string guitar about every 6 months, the idea of having and playing only one PS for years is a foreign one. However, being able to divert my focus and energy from GAS to world peace or cleaning my garage is appealing. But knowing me, I'll probably have another PS by next summer latest. I just won't be quick to sell the one I have since I now know it's a good one. 
_________________
Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyless, Williams S12 Ext. E9 keyed, Telonics TCA 500C, Quilter Steelaire, Magic Fender clone, 1937 Model 59 Rick 6, 1940 Epiphone 7-string Zephyr, Oahu 6, 8+/- regular guitars, Kawai baby grand, two cats... |
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Bill C. Buntin
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Posted 25 Nov 2014 9:03 am
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| I'm with everyone else on this one too Stephen. It was made by Bud Carter, a practical genius regarding Pedal Steel. I have owned more Carter made guitars than anything else, 2 MSA, 2 MCI and 1 Carter. Stick with it. Great guitar. Plenty of parts available, easy to work on, easy to make changes. |
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