sho bud 4th string raise problem

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

i've got a really nice sho bud ldg ('76 i think) with a double raise/ single lower changer.

i can't keep my 4th string raise in tune. the hex nut does not contact the finger when i have the raise in tune. i'm thinking that the rod needs to be adjusted at the other end.

any tips?

thanks

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The rods SHOULD NOT touch when you don't engage a pedal or knee.
I see two rods on your 4th string raise finger.
Does the F lever give you trouble, or the C pedal?
Stupid question time (and I do this still, and I've played and worked on these things since 1980): are you sure you're not putting the wrench on the wrong tuning nut (I've tried tuning the C pedal with the nut for he F lever. The results are disappointing).
Even stupider question (but well known blues Tele player has a BMI at home and didn't know this til he watched me tune my Zum), since I don't know you're not a cold rookie: you do know that those nylon nuts are there for the purpose of tuning the notes made by the pedals and knees? A 3/16" nut driver or tuning wrench turns them.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

After looking at some of your previous posts, I guess you have a grasp of the wrenches. Sorry about that.
Does your Bud have the set screws in the swivels to hold the rods?
Which pulls are posing the problem?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

ah, i see what you're saying, lane.

i assumed it was a part of the problem, because when no changes are in play, that rod clearly sticks out farther than all the rest. i see now that my C pedal seems to have a bit more play than the others, and so the rod sticks out a bit farther. the problem (as i see it) is that the hex nut is a bit 'loose' on there, and spins a bit, making the change go out of tune. all the other changes are working properly, and in fact the the issue with the C pedal is a recent development in the last few months.

how would i adjust the pedal/ rod so it doesn't return too far?

i'm quite sure that i've got the wrench on the right nut, and yup i'm only using the nuts to tune the changes. no question is too dumb, though!

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Two points, Dave---

--If the nut is loose enough that you can turn it by hand, you definitely need to replace it. The threads are shot. Until you have a secure nut, everything else is tail-chasing.

With a new nut, if your pedal raises the string enough with no problem but has a lot of slack, the solution is to shorten the lever throw by adjusting the lever stop, underneath the guitar. Then you can compensate for the shorter pedal throw by tightening the nut until you are in tune. The proper amount of slack is...1/16"--1/8" at rest. But I cannot emphasize this strongly enough--there must be some slack, at rest.

If you have no extra nuts and if you have a lever that you don't use much (maybe the 9th string lower?), you might swap nuts for the time being.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The nylon nuts will eventually strip out. But they're cheap. Try turning it the other way 'round as a stopgap measure. Talk to James Morehead, Michael Yahl or any other steel vendor (although Al Brisco's $40 minimum order might make him a silly source).
If the 5th string C pedal rod has a lot of free travel, you might be able to reduce the C pedal travel; its stop is the machine screw through the angle bracket just above the pedal pull (where the pedal attaches to the guitar).
Those nuts are usually good for a decade and change.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Campbell · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

thanks guys, i really appreciate your help.

it hadn't occurred to me that the nut was just worn out, but now it makes perfect sense.

i just ordered a bunch of stuff from al brisco, so maybe i can get him to toss them in (he's a great help to us canucks). in the meantime i'll turn it around and see if it sticks.

thanks again.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I carelessly said "lever stop" above. I meant pedal stop, as per Lane's post.

Make sure Al knows that it's for a Bud. There are nylon nuts with different sized holes to accommodate different diameter pull rods.

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