| Author |
Topic: Anti Cabinet Drop/Raise Feature |
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 4:33 pm |
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| That note gets most often used as the C# chord, where the note IS the third, therefore E#, and probably second most used as an augmented 5th (ABF), where again it's a sharped E, and if a sharped E isn't E#, I just don't know... |
But I use it almost as much to make an F dim chord. Not an E# diminished. We refer to the F as it sits in the E major scale, which is what our tuning is based on. Although, the C#m scale is the same as the Emaj scale. But we don't call it a C# whatever tuning. Here is an exchange with my brother, who is a music major at a college in Washington, and plays Cello in their orchestra. Granted, he is not God, but does have a lot of music theory experience dating back to my early days on steel guitar (early 70's):
My question to him:
When you take a piece of paper and write out a scale, can you use the same letter (note) twice in the same major scale? The example would be an E major scale. I see it as E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E. On the steel guitar, our top neck is tuned to an E9Th (kind of) chord. See this link. In the key of E, would the F note be an F or E#? I say it would be an F (b9) as opposed to E# (#1). There are a couple of guys on the steel guitar that insist that the knee lever (my LKR) that raises E to F, is actually E to E#. The argument they make is, it is the third of the C# major chord (my pedal 4 and the LKR lever) and thus, it is an E# as the F (F#) note is already used in the scale. In a C# major scale, it is indeed an E#. My contention is, our tuning is based on a E chord, thus the E major scale, and it should be an F note as opposed to an E#.
What's your take on this?
His response:
you are correct. You use each note one time
c d e f g a b c
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
using key C
if you flat a note it is accurately the b5 (Gb), b9 (Db)
The other's argument to call it a E# in the key of E is, well, dumb, as I understand theory. to me it's irrelevant what your instrument is tuned in. In orchestra, the conductor will say this measure is in the key of x, then the next is key y and so on. In non orch music you, me just think in terms of chords, they call it a key. same difference. you play notes within the chord (at the basic level). take key E, A B7 progression. when you play an A chord you don't consider an E# as related to the guitar being in E
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 5:02 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| We refer to the F as it sits in the E major scale |
F is not in the E major scale. |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 7:29 pm
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E# and F are enharmonic equivalents. Personally, I would always say or write F instead of E#. I can only think of three examples where E# makes sense; but, I think saying F instead of E# is more natural (no pun intended.)
1--in the key of B, the IV chord is E. A lot of tunes move from the IV chord to the #IV chord diminished. Technically, that would be E to E# dim in B. But that just seems awkward to refer to it as E#dim.
2--In the key of F#, the 7th note of the scale is E#. I've only played music written in Gb, not F#. But, those notes are also enharmonic equivalents.
3--an augmented A chord would have a raised 5th note that is E#.
I still think i would say F instead of E# for those examples, even though E# is probably correct. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Sep 2014 8:28 pm
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| We refer to the F as it sits in the E major scale |
F is not in the E major scale. |
Correct. It is a flat nine. E# is also not in the E scale. It is much more common to see a flat 9 than a sharp 1.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2014 6:25 am
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| There is NO E# and there is NO B#. |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 14 Sep 2014 7:01 am
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Those notes do exist in some keys. E# is the 7th degree of the F# major scale. B# is the 7th degree of the C# scale. I would avoid using those names by calling those scales Gb and Db.
I sort of found out the hard way. 10+ years ago I was sight-reading "Take Five" on a six-string gig in a jazz trio. The tune was in Gb. That was tough going. But at the bridge the first chord was Cbmaj7. Ugh. I could've read B just fine, but the modulation to Cb (and comping in 5/4 time) was killing me.
I would never use those note names myself, but those odd enharmonics come up on some charts. I would never use those names in a conversation, or on a bandstand. "Hey, give me a D## so I can tune my open E." Ouch. (edited for typo) |
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John Scanlon
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2014 4:42 pm
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| Steve Knight wrote: |
| Those notes do exist in some keys. E# is the 7th degree of the F# major scale. B# is the 7th degree of the C# scale. I would avoid using those names by calling those scales Gb and Db. |
Same issue exists, though, there, as the fourth of Gb is Cb.
_________________
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Insert impressive gear list here. |
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Richard Tipple
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2014 6:10 pm
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Hate to throw in a dumb question here, fellas,,
but,,is the compensator ,a spring added to the changer, for the string in question ? |
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