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Topic: Lap Steel for Bar Slants and String Pulls |
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2014 1:57 pm |
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I designed and built a lap steel guitar, with the hope that it would be good for bar slants and string pulls.
It is made from solid 6061 Aircraft grade aluminum alloy, has a 22.5" scale, string spacing is wide, Fender F spacing, 2.100", (.420 apart). The wide spacing and short scale length should make it easier/better for the bar slants.
I also put in a roller nut, for the string pulls:
I have tuned this guitar to C6
The pickup is a Stat single coil, custom made, on the hot side. I can flip the plate with the pickup around so the pickup is farther away from the bridge for a less bright sound if desired. I used this pickup as I had it already, and it was the spacing I wanted.
What do you think of the ideas I put into this guitar? (That is, for bar slants a shorter scale and wider string spacing, and for string pulls the roller nut.) Am I on the right track?
AlumiLap-II explanation video: http://youtu.be/T_TDtS9BxxQ
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars.
Last edited by W. Johnson on 16 Sep 2014 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Sep 2014 7:12 am
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I wish I had your metal working skills. Looks great.
Hope to hear it soon. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 10 Sep 2014 1:08 pm Engineering
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Looks great .
About engineering commentary to help improve your design.
On the head stock - you have the highest pitch string set to a nearly straight lines to the key post. The more you can do straight lines to all of the tuner post the better, especially when using roller systems.
Many of the pedal steel makers have gone to 360 Brass for their Rollers as it has a desirable tone that many prefer over 6061 T.
I can not tell from the photo - the pin for the rollers needs to be hardened steel or similar stiff material.
In my limited opinion there is no need for rollers for use with bends - slants and palm pedals -- at all.
There are a lot of DIY Builders that would buy the nut system you have designed , if you were to sell them as stand alone units.
The palm bender crowd is always in the hunt for such an item.
Hopefully these comments will help your designs.
GeorgeBoards |
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Sep 2014 3:45 pm
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| George is right. I asked Billy Robinson how important he thought the rollers were on his custom Derby 10 string, and he said they weren't necessary at all, and, in fact, his had frozen up over the years, and hadn't bothered him a bit. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 10 Sep 2014 4:24 pm
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Not necessary at all. String bending will work on even the cheapest nastiest bridge and nut combo. String spacing closer together I find is better for slants and pulling. Regardless you will get used to it.
12 strings better as you can achieve any chord you want like am6add9 or f#m7b5b9#11 hahahahaha
no more than 12 needed. Less than 12 and you have to compromise.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 10 Sep 2014 4:28 pm
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Great engineering and metal work though. That shows some serious skill as well as it must be really light. You sir have some serious potential to build something revolutionary.
Like an electric acoustic version with 12 strings. Send it my way.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 8:14 am
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
It should work fine. Post some sound clips...
Dom  |
I made a few sound clips of this guitar, mostly with open volume and tone settings. I have an old Fender Champ Squier 15GR amp, which I have had for ages, and am using it, and just recording with mics onto my computer.
I've tuned this guitar to typical C6: C - E - G - A - C - E, which I am not very familiar with, as my normal tuning is Am7.
Here are a few links to my Innovativeguitars YouTube channel:
http://youtu.be/XeMJP2p3DeY
http://youtu.be/99X_Xb2DaaI
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars.
Last edited by W. Johnson on 12 Sep 2014 6:01 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 8:37 am Re: Engineering
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| George Piburn wrote: |
Looks great .
About engineering commentary to help improve your design.
On the head stock - you have the highest pitch string set to a nearly straight lines to the key post. The more you can do straight lines to all of the tuner post the better, especially when using roller systems.
Many of the pedal steel makers have gone to 360 Brass for their Rollers as it has a desirable tone that many prefer over 6061 T.
I can not tell from the photo - the pin for the rollers needs to be hardened steel or similar stiff material.
In my limited opinion there is no need for rollers for use with bends - slants and palm pedals -- at all.
There are a lot of DIY Builders that would buy the nut system you have designed , if you were to sell them as stand alone units.
The palm bender crowd is always in the hunt for such an item.
Hopefully these comments will help your designs.
GeorgeBoards |
Thank you for the feedback and input. I can see about designing the head so all the strings are straight. I've looked at the GeorgeBoards guitars, and note they are as you say, the strings are straight, and also are through the body mounted, which I also did on my design. I looked at hundreds of guitar designs, from new to antique, when I was trying to come up with my own unique design, and I really admire the GeorgeBoard guitars a lot.
I've made the rollers from both aluminum and brass. I've heard two sides, some saying aluminum gives a better tone, some say brass. I don't know what to think. As 360 brass has some lead in it, seems to me that would have an undesirable effect. I have used bronze, which has copper and iron, no lead, seemed to sound good. I've made bridges and nuts from bronze, which seems to me sounds a bit livelier.
The pin is just a 3/16" steel bar. I do have hardened 1/2" bar which I have used in my pedal steel guitar and Lapedal-6 guitar.
I saw rollers on a few lap steels, I saw Billy Robinson had them on his guitar in his videos, I thought I'd see how they work in my guitar. Seems to work okay. I've only tried bending the 6th (string 3) to 7th for dominant seventh (did this in one of the sound clips (buzzing and all ) . In Am7 tuning on my other guitar, it's also easy to do a suspended 4th, which sounds kind of cool.
Never gave much thought to making roller nut systems to sell, maybe?
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 8:42 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Not necessary at all. String bending will work on even the cheapest nastiest bridge and nut combo. String spacing closer together I find is better for slants and pulling. Regardless you will get used to it.
12 strings better as you can achieve any chord you want like am6add9 or f#m7b5b9#11 hahahahaha
no more than 12 needed. Less than 12 and you have to compromise. |
I made a 7 string lap steel, personally I just did not know what to do with the extra string, tuning wise. I could have sold it, but, I have a relative that wanted a lap steel, I gave it to him.
I might be building an 8 string for someone, that will be interesting. I cannot play an 8 string, but it would be fun to play with.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2014 8:46 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Great engineering and metal work though. That shows some serious skill as well as it must be really light. You sir have some serious potential to build something revolutionary.
Like an electric acoustic version with 12 strings. Send it my way. |
The body is made from 3/4" thick, 6" wide aluminum, 34" long. It weighs well over 10 pounds (my scale only goes to 10 pounds.) I think it's around 11+ pounds. For a guitar this size it's actually quite hefty. Sustain is, well quite amazing, as is the harmonics.
I'm hoping to make an aluminum acoustic lap guitar for myself (6 strings), probably just a boxy thing. I may or may not put a pickup into it. Not thinking to make and sell, I just want one for myself. Should be plenty loud, and have a ringy bright sound. The aluminum for this will cost me over $200, so, it is just something I hope to do when I can afford it.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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