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Topic: Update on Emmons Guitar Company |
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 8:02 am |
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I am by no means blaming the victim, the point I am trying to make is since Emmons only requires a deposit to order a guitar why would someone insist on paying in full?
If the guitar never shows up at least you are only out the deposit. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 10:35 am
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Erv,
Go back 9 posts to Shawn Sprouse. See paragraph #2...5th line. Shawn goes into detail why he paid in full.
People's budgets change...he had the money available at the time. |
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Bob Muller
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 10:54 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I am by no means blaming the victim, the point I am trying to make is since Emmons only requires a deposit to order a guitar why would someone insist on paying in full?
If the guitar never shows up at least you are only out the deposit. |
Again, I do not understand how the customer can be at fault here in any way. He has receipts, the guitar was paid for, they have taken the money and it's been over 2 1/2 years now there is no delivery and no communication. This is clearly not the way to do business!!! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 10:59 am
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| The payment-in-full-in-advance question is an irrelevant distraction and a red herring. The day would have come when the buyer (who had only put down a deposit) was informed that the guitar was ready and the balance needed to be paid before it would be shipped. As was the case in my friend's situation, the payment was made, the guitar did not exist and many more months passed with many more lies. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 11:07 am
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If everybody would kick in $50 I'll bet we could raise enough money to buy the company. We could call it Emmons Guitars by b0b's Steel Guitar Forum, Inc.
We could have a write in election and the lucky steeler with the most votes would get to be president of the company. He could choose his board of directors and they could accept suggestions from all the contributors as to how they should run things. Sure sounds like a good deal to me.
I would be willing to kick in the 1st $50.
How's this sound to you? |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 11:43 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
If everybody would kick in $50 I'll bet we could raise enough money to buy the company. We could call it Emmons Guitars by b0b's Steel Guitar Forum, Inc.
We could have a write in election and the lucky steeler with the most votes would get to be president of the company. He could choose his board of directors and they could accept suggestions from all the contributors as to how they should run things. Sure sounds like a good deal to me.
I would be willing to kick in the 1st $50.
How's this sound to you? |
Like a recipe for disaster and a perfect way to make lifelong enemies of people you've never even met.
Fortunately, I can't think of a more impossible and unworkable scheme; legally, financially, practically, and any other way I can conceive of.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 11:46 am
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So I take it, there'll be no $50 forthcoming? 
I'm really disappointed, I was going to nominate you for President! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 2:48 pm
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Just think, it might kick out dividends of pennies a year!!!
I think Ron should just sell his trademarks and then patents to someone who wants to make steel guitars, given that it seems the only Emmons guitars made in years are made by dealers.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 4:32 pm
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Buying Emmons Co has always been on my "bucket list". I'd love to move it out to Oregon and hire all my steel building buddies (from the Sierra days): Larry Behm, Lynn Stafford, Harley James, Mark Simpson etc.
I think that efficient - quality fabrication, top-notch customer service, reasonable lead-time and industry representation are not insurmountable goals.
IMO building steels is not a "money-maker" but more a labor of love. If it could establish adequate cash flow to pay for itself and provide a bit of supplemental salary for the crew, I would be ecstatic. |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 6:09 pm Everything is An Emmons.
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| I think the only thing that will go by the wayside, is the Emmons Brand. Everybody is already building an Emmons guitar, just look at'em. There ain't a dimes worth of difference in any of the modern steels. So just pick a brand that suits you, and go with it, cause they all play and sound about the same. I do hope The Emmons Co. can come back, it's just without new players, and new music, the steel biz as a whole, will become extinct. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 30 Jul 2014 7:24 pm
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
There are still those that do not know, or do not know the extent of the problems.
I recently mentioned it to a friend in Missouri and he had no idea. So there are those that are not aware of problems.
And yes, those that order something and do not get it are not to blame. The entire blame is on Emmons Co (or what's left of it). |
Absolutely right, as far as blame. And not just for a small steel guitar company, that may or may not still be in business, but for EVERY product, sold from one person to another. Yours is a well-stated and valid point.
This, on the other hand, "Yep, blame the victim. Poor guy is out 5G's and he has to defend himself to the Emmons fan club." is not. An inflammatory and unnecessary post, IMO. |
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 8:17 am
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I have no doubt in the world pedal steels could be manufactured in China and sell for an extremely reasonable price and have reliable delivery.
If it wasn't for the misguided notion this would be "taking jobs away from Americans" I'm sure it would work out. Everyone who posted agreed no one can make any money, or at least sustain themselves, making pedal steels.
So we put up with years long delivery time and watch long time mfrs go out of business....is that better than having them made in China? |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 8:41 am
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| Tony Palmer wrote: |
I have no doubt in the world pedal steels could be manufactured in China and sell for an extremely reasonable price and have reliable delivery.
If it wasn't for the misguided notion this would be "taking jobs away from Americans" I'm sure it would work out. Everyone who posted agreed no one can make any money, or at least sustain themselves, making pedal steels.
So we put up with years long delivery time and watch long time mfrs go out of business....is that better than having them made in China? |
"Better dead than Red" was an amusing slogan from back in my teenage years.
I think the steel guitar market is simply too small and complex to deal with on the Chinese level.
Having merch mfg'd in China, or anywhere else for that matter, is cheaper due to economy of scale: lots of stuff made the same way for many, many folks who generally want the same items. Which is why Fender gave up making pedal steels... too many variations in knee levers and copedents meant too much individual time spent on individual guitars.
Pedal steels as we now know them are very individualistic instruments requiring a knowledgeable builder to assemble a specific guitar for a specific player with his unique setup. I don't think the one-size-fits-most model would work well in the system we have now.
Maybe the Gold Tone/Beard system would work: cabinet and basic setup mfg'd in Asia at a lower cost, then final levers and setup done by an experienced builder here in the States. But then you've got shipping, duties, wait-times, etc. to deal with. And gone is the one-on-one relationship with the builder, which most steel players require (even if they don't realize it).
So, let's say we outsource the making of the cabinets to a Foreign Power to reduce final price.
Anyone wanting to bitch about losing their job because their company outsourced it overseas doesn't really have much of a compelling argument, do they? 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:09 am
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The safest bet anymore, is to buy a steel guitar that is already made off the show room floor...My heart goes out to this situation...with having paid, and worse than 'No delivery' is 'No Communication'...
Someone having your money and ignoring communication is a terrible feeling for a customer, you feel totally taken and then you have to fight and defend yourself for being an honorable human.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:22 am
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
The safest bet anymore, is to buy a steel guitar that is already made off the show room floor...My heart goes out to this situation...with having paid, and worse than 'No delivery' is 'No Communication'...
Someone having your money and ignoring communication is a terrible feeling for a customer, you feel totally taken and then you have to fight and defend yourself for being an honorable human. |
I don't think this would work. Not many music stores would want to lay out up front money to stock a steel guitar. And then, what if the customer wanted extra pedals/levers? There would need to be a qualified mechanic on their staff. There's probably not even a handful of stores willing to do that. This has been discussed to death in the path. When I bought my Kline in the 70's, the store had a floor model. But I play "Day" style and wanted more knee levers, which meant they had to order one from the factory.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:35 am
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Almost all steel guitar manufactures have a website with built ready to go steels available... Carter used to have a ton, Mullen has many...Parts ready available, knee lever kits ready to roll in the mail, great service, hands on help, a person on the other end of the phone, blah blah...I'm not talking about a regular guitar music shop that sells clarinets to high school kids...
It's a shame this situation has taken place, i feel for the man...
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Tony Palmer
From:
St Augustine,FL
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 9:56 am
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The current market for pedal steel is indeed one that "needs" individual attention for every sale.....but that's because most of us learned on whatever convoluted setup we had with our first guitar. And that is what both sustains and complicates the boutique nature of the instrument (who lowers E's on what lever, what direction, raises E's, 4th pedal, etc.)
But with newer, younger players coming on board, who says there will continue to be such specific personalization required? There very well may be a one size fits all machine that can be produced overseas, with extra levers or pedals available as add on kits.
It's not impossible to standardize our instrument for the sake of consistency and affordability. It sure wouldn't matter to a new player!
And, in retrospect, perhaps not to the original poster of this thread either. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 10:12 am
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I've heard small instrument makers crow about having large backorders and long wait times and you might think that would indicate some level of success and some sense of security…. like money in the bank. But for every customer that agrees to a two year build wait, at least that many again will pass or delay purchasing and that represents a lost opportunity for both customer and builder.
You can have success building instruments but you have to "plan" for profit and match your production to your order stream….. hand-to-mouth doesn't work very well.
_________________
Jerry Jones |
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Jerry Van Hoose
From:
Wears Valley, Tennessee
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 11:14 am
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| Shawn has clearly stated his reasons for paying in full. If his post had been read and understood, there shouldn't have been any question(s) regarding that matter. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with Jack Stoner. Unfortunately, there are people that are completely unaware of the present situation with Emmons Guitar Co. I've actually encountered a few, always referred them to the reputable Emmons dealers/factory repair gentlemen previously mentioned in this thread. I feel badly for Shawn as he is definitely a victim. I hope that this is soon resolved to his upmost satisfaction. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 12:34 pm
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
Almost all steel guitar manufactures have a website with built ready to go steels available... Carter used to have a ton, Mullen has many...Parts ready available, knee lever kits ready to roll in the mail, great service, hands on help, a person on the other end of the phone, blah blah...I'm not talking about a regular guitar music shop that sells clarinets to high school kids...
It's a shame this situation has taken place, i feel for the man... |
I also took this into account when I made my post. Even the ready built ones at a manufacturer's factory, is really "not off the showroom floor" in my opinion. A showroom floor is somewhere reasonably close where I can test drive it. I would never want to go to Detroit (or wherever) to check out a Ford to buy. The factory showrooms would most likely require a plane trip to get there. Not exactly something I would want to do, unless I had a large surplus of cash that I didn't need.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 12:58 pm
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Lynn Stafford is so busy "refurbishing" steels (mostly PP's) he will have the steel world back on it's feet by the end of the year. 
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Flamma Reverb, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 1:04 pm
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Some of Mullen's output is built to a standard 8&5 and sold to dealers (Gary Sill and Mickey Adams spring to mind). But I really can't think there's a lot og money in it.
My Emmons was bought from dealer stock.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 2:06 pm
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Sometime soon I am going to bite the bullet and order an Emmons Le Grande 3
_________________
LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA
Last edited by Brian Henry on 7 Aug 2014 8:12 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 2:22 pm
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I would like to see proof of those companies making a handsome profit. Including Carter in your list of companies that "do make a handsome profit" kind of takes away some of the credibility of that statement. I don't think any of them made a handsome profit by anyone's standards.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2014 2:39 pm
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Richard, I don't think handsome would be the correct word but I do think there is s good profit to be made making steel guitars. Espicially like Carter ran their company. I also think it is totally rediculous to have to wait a year or even six months for a steel. I think 30 days should be max. It was two weeks for Carter and Igot my Rains in one week. If a steel manufacture wanted to make a good profit, i believe its there, espicially with a brand like Emmons that has all ready established a good following. JMHO
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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