New Pedal Steel player looking for some amp advice

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

I've been playing 6 string guitar for about 15 years and finally realized a long standing dream of mine, to own a pedal steel guitar. I was fortunate enough to pick up a Carter Starter E9 Pedal Steel from my brother for a great price (and on a no-interest payment plan, at that!), and am now endeavoring to learn how to play it.

My first major question has to do with amps (I'm sure I'll be bugging you all with other questions soon). I'm a huge gear nut, I love amps (and pedals) and my g/f and I (she's a fiddle player) have a pretty nice collection. The primary gigging amps are my g/f's 68 Bassman head and a 62 Tweed Champ that we split; I also own a Roland Cube 60 that I use for most for practices and as a back up at gigs. I've been wanting to buy a medium sized tube amp of some sort to round out the collection, but now that I've got this pedal steel I'm not sure what to be looking at. I really have no idea what is important in a pedal steel amp. From a bit of reading on here, it seem like clean headroom is a big one, but what else?

A few of the amps that I've been considering are; Mesa TransAtlantic-15, Mesa Lonestar Special, Mesa Express 5:25+, Fender Deluxe Reverb (either a silverface or a reissue), or Fender Super Sonic 22. The realization that I need more clean headroom has got me thinking about buying a Twin Reverb, Pro Reverb, Dual Showman, or a Super Sonic 100. I'm a big fan of using clean amps and getting whatever overdrive or distortion I need from pedals.

I should probably describe my band situation as well, I figure, that way you nice folks can tailor your advice to my needs. I'm currently in a mostly country band (some classic, some modern, some in between) with some classic rock and blues thrown in. I'm ideally hoping to switch to pedal steel for about 75% of our songs in this band, I'd be playing lead guitar on the rest. I'm also in the process of starting an alt-country/americana type band (Drive By Truckers kind of stuff), and I'll probably be doing a lot of steel, but also electric and acoustic guitar with this group. Since I don't envision a situation in the near future where I'll be playing steel exclusively, I'd like to find a good amp that can handle both 6 string and E9 Pedal Steel. A lot of the venues around here have their own PA and sound guy, and most of them are pretty good. In the venues where there is no PA, we bring our own sizable PA, and I typically run the sound. Consequently, there will be very few situations where I'm not able to put a mic on whatever amp I'm playing. My country band maintains a pretty low stage volume most of the time, and I'd like to keep it that way (which has me worried about trying to play lead guitar through a Twin, or really anything with more than 30 watts. I used to get yelled at to turn down all the time when I gigged with a Hot Rod Deluxe. Before that I had a Lonestar 100/50, which was the target of much more yelling.

Sorry for the wall of text. What it boils down to is, if I have something the size of a Deluxe Reverb or Mesa TA-15, will I be able to keep it clean enough for pedal steel if I can consistently mic it at gigs?

Thanks in advance.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

It seems like the amps you have will work fine for now and for quite sometime. I wouldn't buy anything for the steel until you get your feet wet for a bit. Guitar amps work great. Save your money for a good steel. If you stick with the pedalsteel you will be out growing the starter pretty soon.
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Bob

Bill L. Wilson · From: Oklahoma, USA

I couldn't help but notice that you have a girl friend. Get all of the amps and guitars you can afford now, cause all you'll be buying after marriage is furniture, baby stuff, a house, an SUV.......The Fender Twin Reverb is a great double duty amp.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

The Bassman and a reverb unit will do fine. Several of the working members of this forum use just that.
I mean, you COULD get a Twin, or something like that.
The widespread (but not universal) impression is that Mesas just don't give good steel tone
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

We do have a silverface tube reverb head from the late 70's too. If the Bassman will work, I'll probably just keep using that. I was a little afraid it might break up too early.

As for my g/f, she's an even bigger gear junkie than me. Most of the stuff I mentioned above (Bassman, Bandmaster Cab 2x12 and the Reverb Head) belong to her. We split the purchase of the Champ. She generally prefers to gig with the Champ, and I generally prefer to gig with the Bassman.

The main reason I'm looking at other amps is that I want something smaller than the Bassman but bigger than the Champ and that I actually own. I don't mind sharing the way we currently are, but I'd like to be covered in case something happened to one of the amps and we both had a gig on the same night.

I've got plenty of time to decide, since it's going to be a while before I feel comfortable playing this thing in front of anyone but my dog.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Generally, bass amps are built to stay clean as well as steel amps. If you're not gonna gig for awhile, then anything in your arsenal will work, and the Fender tone stack is pretty darn steel-friendly, any of those will sound good in the basement.
You'll want the Twin when you get to gigging, if you have to fill a room with your amp.
If you (or she) are as gear-junkie as you say, Tim Marcus makes Milkman amps. They're kinda designed after the Fender, but made with premium components and tweaked to sound even better for steel. I like to say they're subtly, but impressively, better than a Twin.
And fiddlers tend to look for the same characteristics in an amp. I bet if she plays through one, she'll want one.
Your current stable is very good, but I'm sure you know there's a big (and often expen$ive) gap between very good and great.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

I doubt I'll need to fill many rooms around here with the amp alone. Most of the places we play aren't that big. And I like to mic stuff whenever we are playing even a medium sized room.

I was checking out Milkman amps a couple of days ago. I like what I see, but they are a little out of my price range for the time being. Maybe in a few years Very Happy

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Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

I don't think you will get nearly enough headroom from a Deluxe Reverb or a Bassman in a band situation with drums. The reason steel players need power and headroom is because you are running through a volume pedal, usually at about the halfway point.

Right now Twin Reverbs are going begging on Craigslist. I see them all the time for $500 - 600. They are a great value because guitar players generally don't need that much power, preferring smaller amps like the Deluxe Reverb. It's a buyer's market for Twins. Since you get your grind from pedals, a Twin would be the ideal double duty amp for you.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

I use a Mesa Lonestar 1x12 for both steel and guitar and am very pleased with what it does for both. It's a essentially a twin reverb as far as power and headroom are concerned, but much more versatile tonally, especially for guitar. And it will go very loud and remain very clean if the need arises.

As far as bandmates yelling at you, that's not an amp-related issue when talking about twin reverbs or similar. They're designed to sound good at just about any volume. Just turn it down. Amps that need to be pushed to get their sound serve a different function.

Ken Campbell · From: Ferndale, Montana

Where in Montana?

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

I live in Stevensville, just south of Missoula.

I used to have a 2x12 Lonestar. I loved that amp, but it was overkill for the band I used to be in, so I stupidly sold it. If I got another one, I'd get the 1x12 Special, or a Special in a head.

My biggest beef with a Twin isn't so much the volume (though that's part of it), it's the weight and size of it. I'd almost rather take, say a TA-15 head and 1x12 cab for guitar and a Dual Showman or Super Sonic 60 or 100 head and 1x15 for steel. I have a (probably irrational) aversion to 85lbs combo amps after carting that Mesa Lonestar around for 6 or 7 years.

Jerry Van Hoose · From: Wears Valley, Tennessee

Vintage, original 1968 Fender Twin Reverb, 63lbs. Smile

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If you want tube tone and light weight, the Milkman also provides Half and Half.
Or you could get a Sarno preamp (Revelation or V Cool

and a power amp (or powered cab)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

What Lane touched on above is important, that being that bass amps very often have great "steel amp" characteristics. Especially the more modern ones with a parametric EQ of sorts controlling the midrange. Steel guitars have a specific need for midrange that's a bit more picky than what will work for most lead and rhythm guitar needs. And just like with guitars, there have been historical accidents that worked out great, IMO an early Silverface Twin Reverb, 1969 - 1972, may be the best steel amp Fender ever made.

But if you don't luck into the right accident, I'd just stick with what you have until, as Bob Hoffnar mentions, you figure out more about the steel and what you may want it to do inside a band context. We're in a great time, thataways - it's pretty wide-open, you don't have to just emulate the "respectful Nashville sideman" attitude if you want to blow it up some. But I did "triple-duty" with a SWR SM500 bass head for years, and neither my back nor my ears have felt a compelling need to change. If we're allowed to include "the fingers that turn the knobs", the hoary old cliche tone is in the fingers still has a good bit of life to it. And, you may not be a really great steel guitarist for... a little while, yet; ahem; and the better the amp, the more that will show! Laughing

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

I may just have to bite the bullet and get a Twin at some point. The early silverface Twins are very reasonably priced most of the time. And as you said, it's going to be a while before I can really play this thing publicly anyway. Plus, the weight of amps is why I have a handcart.

I'm not surprised that bass amps make good steel amps. When my g/f and I were searching for an amp for her fiddle, the Bassman was the best thing we tried, but the second was another bass amp (I can't recall what it was exactly). Her first amp was a Mesa DC-5, and while it worked, it definitely adulterated her natural fiddle sound alot, where the Bassman just sounds like someone playing an enormous fiddle. A couple of people actually recommended a Peavey steel amp, if I recall.

Daryl Thisdelle · From: New Brunswick, Canada

I totally agree with BoB Hoffnar. You got amps up the ying yang. That Carter starter will only let you go so far. Don't spend time trying to make the Cater starter sound better you got enough amps to do that now, spend your time making you sound better then go out and get the steel of your dreams. When you get the steel of your dreams, then match it with the amp that makes it sound like heaven. I good player will make a not so good steel and amp set up sound good. A not so good steel player sounds not so good on any piece of equipment.

Daryl
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Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I like the Sarno V8 preamp. It was an impulsive purchase from a fellow SGF member, and I've fallen in love with it.

It has a nice sparkly tube sound and going through a D class power amp (World 1.2), it can be as quiet or loud as I wish. The pre-amp has a "gain" knob which lets me add a bit of "hair" when playing my Tele.

The V8 takes up half a rack space. In a soft rack bag w/ the World amp. The whole thing weighs about 17 lbs and sits nicely next to my steel seat at the gig. I run it through a single BW 15 /w Neo mag in an external Gerry Walker-built cab that tips the scale at about 20 lbs. My signal chain includes a L'il Izzy, SIB Echodrive delay + HOF reverb pedals. The system, taken together, is versatile, sweet-sounding and lightweight.

Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

For a basic rig for all occasions in the middle of the road it is hard to beat a nashville 400 with a reverb pedal and a delay pedal in front of it. And maybe a tube driver too.

Steel-pot pedal-reverb-delay-tube driver-nashville400....

Good basis to start from.

Good inexpensive rig to keep in reserve for quick gigs and a backup.

And your bass man would most likely be an acceptable sub for the nv400..
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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I also agree with Daryl: your amp stable has you pretty well set, and if you stick with the pedal steel, a better guitar will make more of a difference than an amp purchase. And for between 12 and 1700, you can find lots of quality pro guitars used.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

For the past 11 years I have been running Pod xt direct to PA...I also run the second output direct to my 1000 watt Jbl powered monitor. If helps trendousley with stage volume, tear down and your back. They are also a monster tone shaper loaded with anything you need...
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A.K.A Chappy.

Matt Bush · From: Portland, OR

As I've done more research, and watched the answers to this thread, I'm leaning more toward buying a 20 watt ish guitar amp this fall (if I end up buying anything at all), and waiting on a steel amp (and a new steel) until I'm comfortable enough on steel to play more than a few songs per gig.

The main reason I was considering buying a "good for steel" amp now was that I thought I'd be playing this thing at gigs shortly after New Years. As I'm delving more into it, I'm starting to realize it's going to be quite a bit longer than that.

Daryl Thisdelle · From: New Brunswick, Canada

Matt welcome to the world of steel guitar. Where any successful step forward is measured in millimetres and frustrations are measured by the minute. So best sit down and relax you will be here for awhile. Like 20 years or more. I am a new-bi by standards started off 10 strings for 9 months and then went 12 string Uni,7 months now. I play every day, take lessons and do the best I can. I am a musician for over 45 years so I took to the PSG like white on rice but still has a long way to go. I now play a Williams UNI 12, and just love it, custom ordered it after I found out over time what I really wanted to play on and have as options. Buy it once, but get all you want in the purchase. THE PSG is where you will learn how to make it sing like a bird, your amp is just the extension to that sound. I know you know this, just a friendly reminder. Welcome to the world of PSG.

Daryl
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Williams 700 Keyless SD 12 String Universal Lacguer Body Wood Neck Alumitone Pick Up GD Walker Stereo Steel Amp Preamp Combo With 2x15 inch JBL Speakers In Tuned Cabinets, Hilton Digital Sustain Pedal, Telonics Volume Pedal. Steel Seat With Back Rest And Swivel And Adjustable Legs. George L Cables. BJS Bar. Nookies Thumb Pick National Finger Picks. Jagwires Petterson Strobo Plus HD Tuner

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

Before you buy, I recommend the Peavey Nashville 112 amplifier or a used Peavey Nashville 400. Solid state for steel is my choice for steel guitar.

Mike Brown
Peavey Electronics Corporatin

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Mike certainly speaks some truth. Peavey solid state steel amps are the workhorses and sound excellent.
I'd think other models sound better. Tonewise, I'd rank Peaveys like this, in descending order:
Session 400/LTD (same electronics in a smaller cab)
Session 500
Session 400 Limited
Vegas 400 (which also has a guitar channel)
Nashville 400
Nashville 1000
Nashville 112
Nashville 2000 is just like the 1000, but it has a Profex II built in, and I loathe multieffects units.

Everything except the 112 is not in production, but can be found used at reasonable prices.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tracy Edgar · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada

I don't see any one looking at the Quilter Steel Pro
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"The Ghost"

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