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Post new topic A "Long Lost" E7 Tuning
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Author Topic:  A "Long Lost" E7 Tuning
Jeff Strouse


From:
Jacksonville, Florida, USA
Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 9:38 am     Reply with quote

Thanks, Les! I checked the ebay link and there was one disc left, so I got lucky!

Thanks to Guy for 'discovering' this tuning and for the tabs!

Smile
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Les Cook


From:
Derbyshire, UK
Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 12:29 pm     Reply with quote

just in case anyone else wants one at that discount price I listed a couple more on ebay ! thanks for the support !
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190879426096?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

the photo posted earlier of Diamond's band came from the widow of one of the musicians ( David Keaoahu) who told John Marsden that Diamond died soon after the photo was taken. Since producing the Cd I've discovered he died in March 1936
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Scott Thomas


Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 3:43 pm     Reply with quote

I have rarely if ever seen a vintage Hawaiian band photo with so many single cone "dobro" style instruments. Even the uke matches. So cool.

I wonder if there is any relation to Joe Diamond of the Andy Cummings band. It seems like it would be a rather uncommon name in Hawaii.
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Les Cook


From:
Derbyshire, UK
Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 3:58 pm     Reply with quote

By the time he was on the mainland ...around 1916...he was giving his name as Charles Kaimana Diamond. Kaimana is the Hawaiian word for Diamond ! Sometimes he was billed as Charlie Dimond too. My best guess is that his real name was Charles Kaimana . I do know he came from North Kohala ...do you know anything about Joe's origins, Scott ?
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Christiaan van der Vyver


From:
London, UK
Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 5:02 pm     Reply with quote

Again, this is a great thread, thanks Guy for the transcription of "Sleep". I'd be very interested to see the "Stars and Stripes" transcription. I'm always interested in any tabs from that era for solo Hawaiian guitar, that I can have a go with on my Weiss!
Does anyone have any other tabs floating around (in this E7 tuning) - I have the Sanella one which is great too. Cheers!
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Scott Thomas


Post Posted 1 Aug 2013 11:13 pm     Reply with quote

Les Cook wrote:
By the time he was on the mainland ...around 1916...he was giving his name as Charles Kaimana Diamond. Kaimana is the Hawaiian word for Diamond ! Sometimes he was billed as Charlie Dimond too. My best guess is that his real name was Charles Kaimana . I do know he came from North Kohala ...do you know anything about Joe's origins, Scott ?


I just found this which is quite interesting: Joe Diamond (1915-1993) was born Joseph Kaimana in Kohala, HI. He had eight sons, one of which went by the name of Charles Kaimana "Dimond". So Joe must have been either a son or nephew of Charles Diamond and named a son after him.

The above info came from a Loren Dimond in response to this query on Ancestry.com:

"Searching for relatives of my father,
Charles Kaimana Dimond, a musician, died 1933."

link:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.dimond/35/mb.ashx

The responses reference the younger Charles. Still, it looks like a promising start to further research if anyone was inclined to contact some of these relatives. Especially see the most recent reply by kcosper48.
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Les Cook


From:
Derbyshire, UK
Post Posted 4 Aug 2013 8:18 am     Reply with quote

thanks Scott ...I'll follow up the lead ! there was also a Kekona Diamond who came to Europe in 1919 as a musician with the Bird of Paradise show ...not sure how he fits into the puzzle yet.
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Guy Cundell


From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
Post Posted 5 Aug 2015 9:50 pm     Reply with quote

John Lennon prepares to embark on 'For You Blue' using the ancient E7 tuning.




I thought I might revive this thread, as its contents are included in a music research thesis that I completed last year. The work is entitled “Across the Pacific: The transformation of the steel guitar from Hawaiian folk instrument to popular music mainstay” It is available free for download at a number of online locations.

The investigation of this tuning goes a bit deeper in the thesis than in this thread and reveals the possible genesis of the tuning in a surprising context in 1921. It has been ‘hidden in plain view’ for years and sits proudly in the Library of Congress online sound archives. I won’t say what it is here. You will need to consult the thesis for that. You’ll find the answer on page 97. A hint is Roy Smeck but that is not the answer.

Alternatively, if you want the answer and are interested in the subject but don’t wish to wade through academic language, you might like to read a series of articles by Anthony Lis which dissect the thesis in plain speech. These can be found in Aloha Dreams magazine starting in the current issue in which the answer to the genesis of this tuning is revealed. An online edition is available for a very reasonable sum.

http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/order_info.html

Since finishing I have discovered a printed reference to this tuning in a 1927 publication “The Hawaiian Steel Guitar: Complete Instruction for its Artistic Study” by C.S. De Lano p39.

Concerning the thesis, I wish to say that it is not a definitive word on the early steel guitar but a just a step in the journey of research. Hopefully more work on the subject will improve on my efforts. I know that some work has already been done. (Mike Neer)

In the thesis I acknowledge this particular section of this forum and its instigators, B0B and Brad. It has provided a spark and fuel to my interest and I could not have attempted the work if it did not exist. So gentlemen, I'd like to thank you very much, and also the many knowledgeable and passionate participants in this forum.
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Guy Cundell


From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
Post Posted 11 Jul 2016 12:20 am     Reply with quote

I’d like to add a little extra information to this thread. This has come to me as a result of recently reading of ‘Roy Smeck: The Wizard of the Strings in his Life and Times’ by Vincent Cortese, 2004.

In my thesis (p97) I argue that the tuning under discussion here has its origins in the tuning of the first 8 string steel guitar, the octa-chorda, that apeared in 1921. The tuning was EG#BEG#BDE (low to high) the seventh being high in the voicing, unlike the E7 tunings that followed in the late 1920s in which the seventh was an octave lower on the 4th string or thereabouts. http://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/handle/2440/86478

Roy Smeck is quoted by Cortese as having claimed that there were only ever two octo-chordas made, the one cited in my thesis and Roy’s. It is claimed that the first octo-chorda was manufactured in 1921 by Lyons & Healy in Chicago. It is possible that this instrument is pictured leaning up in the corner of a snap of Gage Brewer on the web page below. Also on this page are a few pictures of Roy Smeck’s instrument, manufactured by Harmony, a company whose instruments he endorsed.
http://www.harpguitars.net/history/month_hg/month-hg-7-10.htm


The Octa-chorda is on the left.

I was amazed to find video of Roy Smeck performing on the octo-chorda. This film premiered on August 6th, 1926. The remarkable footage was included in an experimental release of fully synchronized sound and pictures by the Warner Bros. This took place a year before the release of ‘The Jazz Singer’ which is widely recognized as the first ‘Talking Picture’. It is remarkable! Here is the first eight string steel guitar participating in a milestone of contemporary culture! As is the E7 tuning of 1921.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgBLqbYUPS8
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Scott Duckworth


From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
Post Posted 11 Jul 2016 7:10 am     Reply with quote

I'm finding the E7 and E6 tunings good to work with.

E7, low to high, B,D,E,G#,B,E
E6, low to high, B,C#,E,G#,B,E
_________________
(1) E6 Rogue lap steel, (1) A6 Rogue lap steel, Li'l Izzy, Zoom MS-50G Effects Pedal into a Berhinger mixer and Harbinger V2112 speaker(s).

Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it

I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus!
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Guy Cundell


From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
Post Posted 16 Dec 2016 4:48 pm     Reply with quote

With permission, I am now able to provide the audio for Charles Diamond's 'Sleep'. It appears on the Grass Skirt Records CD "Sol Hoopii in Hollywood: his first recordings 1925" along with Diamond's only other known recording 'Star Spangled Banner' ( a ripping performance!!) At first I passed over this tune thinking that it was a sweet guitar/steel duet of not much interest. Only on close examination, it became apparent to me that it was a solo piece. I believe Diamond's composition and performance are real artistry. He effectively creates a dreamy atmosphere that the title suggests. Technically its clean articulation and clear rhythms are outstanding. Also harmonically it is pretty advanced for a popular tune. Many thanks, Les.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-feyScNX7Zs
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Mark Evans


From:
Wisconsin, USA
Post Posted 18 Dec 2016 6:47 am     Reply with quote

I can't read music, but I've taken to lap steel (Weissenborn and Oaho acoustic lap) with joy and enthusiasm. Been playing my shortscale Lazy River in E, but this variant sounds way cool. Always nice to learn a new tuning. And the John Lennon 'For You Blue was a revelation.
_________________
Larry Pogreba Baritone 'Weissenheimer'
Larry Pogreba Standard Weissenborn
Lazy River Short Scale Weiss
Everett Laurel
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Todd Clinesmith


From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
Post Posted 18 Dec 2016 9:25 am     Reply with quote

Cool tuning, and great discovery Guy.
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face book page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinesmith-Instruments/1457245817911268?ref=bookmarks
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Anthony Lis


From:
South Dakota, USA
Post Posted 18 Dec 2016 8:18 pm     Reply with quote

Great, Guy; I have checked out your YouTube posting--very thoughtful of you to have your transcription posted as the recording plays. Hopefully others will be able to soon-enjoy this important recording.
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