| Author |
Topic: Upon Reaching the Statistical End of Your Life? |
Lincoln Goertzen
From:
Taylor, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 31 Mar 2013 10:02 pm |
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| Allen Peterson wrote: |
Lincoln,
From the wording of your sentence, you have lumped Mormons in the non-Christian group. The official name of the Mormon Church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." They are Christians and consider Christ to be their Savior, just like all other Christians on the planet.
Allen Peterson |
Well, Allen, the ones that believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers are not "just like all other Christians on the planet." Their official name is very familiar to me, just not their concept of Jesus.
For those with Muslim friends who do not wish to kill unbelievers, I'm glad you have such friends. However, lest I appear to be making statements that I cannot back up, I invite you to peruse www.thereligionofpeace.com which describes the situation better than I am able to in this space.
I will be unable to follow this as closely as I would like to from here on, as I have some personal things to look after and my internet time will be limited, but if anyone would like to discuss something I've said, or have me clarify anything I may have made unclear, please send me an email.
Other than that, have a good evening, all!
Best regards,
Lincoln |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 4:00 am
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
That's why I'm an Agnostic. I accept that I am inherently incapable of understanding the universe and all its wonders, and never will be.
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This sums it up for me. I do not understand, not do I care to. I am here now and I live in the present.
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com |
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Allen Peterson
From:
Katy, Texas
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 4:06 am
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Lincoln,
Why is the concept of Jesus and Lucifer being brothers so hard to digest? It is like Able and Cain--good and evil. We make choices between good and evil all the time. We are asked to make a choice between Jesus and Satan in our lives. How many of us have had a good child and a bad one? Do we love the bad child any less than the good? No, we despise the evil but not the child. This is the choice God had to make when planning His creation. Satan would take away our free agency and wanted all the glory for himself; Christ, on the other hand, would let us choose but would give God the glory. God chose Christ to be the Lord of His world. Satan was cast out of his presence for rebellion.
I realize this concept may be difficult for some to swallow, particularly if they don't believe in modern-day revelation. The Mormons believe in prophets and revelation. They believe individuals can receive personal revelation, if they are worthy of it. The concept of Christ vs Satan in the pre-existence is the product of revelation received by a prophet and is recorded in modern-day scripture. I don't think you will find it in ancient scripture (the Bible); it may have originally been there but was lost when man started manipulating the concepts and precepts for their own benefit.
I am a Mormon. I have studied this religion for over 50 years. But I would never dream of pushing my beliefs on anyone. I am perfectly happy to let everyone believe, or disbelieve, what they want to. I really don't care to get into a debate; there are no winners. I am interested in what others believe and think, however. I guess that is what makes this post so interesting. I have learned much from this post. I hope Gene has received some answers, or at least some things to think about.
Allen Peterson
_________________
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 11:17 am Re: Upon Reaching the Statistical End of Your Life?
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| Gene Jones wrote: |
| ...to the reality of "the end is near". |
An 82 year old male has a life expectancy of about 7 years; not so near after all. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 11:55 am
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| Quote: |
| We seem to be drifting pretty far from the original topic. |
My opinions: I think this discussion went off-topic a long time ago. The OP wanted to talk about the coming end-of-life, from the viewpoint of other older forum members. Sounds like a reasonable and pragmatic thing to talk about, a lot of us are getting older. There are a lot of issues that older people face, and discussing that seems entirely reasonable to me.
But very quickly, the discussion turned to what happens after death, and into an ever-cascading discussion of religion. IMO, when the topic turns to religion or politics, this type of result is predictable. I think there's a very good reason that almost ALL topic-specific forums similar to the SGF strictly prohibit any discussions of religion/theology or politics. They are divisive, and off-topic to anything which the forum is about. I really thought that this type of topic was strictly prohibited here, and I think we should return to that standard. In all seriousness, how do you possibly get into a discussion about what happens after death without getting into theological arguments? I actually like discussing theology, but I don't this forum is a proper place for that.
On the discussion of the last few pages - I just love it when people write that they aren't going to try to convince anybody about anything, but then, in the next paragraph, write that anybody who doesn't agree with how they interpret certain religious ideas (whether it be other viewpoints/interpretations within the same faith, different faiths, agnosticism, or strict atheism) is going to spend eternity in hell. How are people of diverse approaches to faith (or lack of it) supposed to conduct a civil conversation when this inevitable challenge is made?
| Quote: |
| An 82 year old male has a life expectancy of about 7 years; not so near after all. |
Good point. Here's the complete, social security administration actuarially-based age-conditional life expectancy table - http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html. Statistics are not as simple as a simple raw ensemble average. In this case, as you get older, your conditional life expectancy (conditioned on your current age) tends to increase.
BTW - reading that SSA table, you can see that the overall population mean life expectancy in the U.S. is about 75.4 years for males, 80.4 for females. As another example of how to interpret the table, at 82, a man's probability of surviving at least one more year is about 92%. |
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Lincoln Goertzen
From:
Taylor, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 1:05 pm Re: Upon Reaching the Statistical End of Your Life?
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| Gene Jones wrote: |
| ...the reality of "the end is near"....Gene |
In regards to being off topic, living with the "end of life in view" affects how I live now, and what I choose to believe, both about life now, and life after death.
For many of us, the end of life is the beginning of the afterlife. My belief in eternal life in heaven is a great source of comfort as I anticipate dying. (Statistically, the death rate is one to one. I cannot reasonably expect to live on the earth indefinitely.)
I wish very much that we could have this conversation in the same room, so that people could see the smile on my face and hear that the tones in my voice, which I do not intend to be demeaning or harsh in any way. I think that we could finish our conversation, shake hands, and pick some tunes afterwards.
In the interest of keeping things on-topic, and in order to maintain the same standard for everyone, shall I answer Allen's questions privately? If anyone else is curious as to what I would have written here, I am happy to respond via email (PMs are not a reliable way of getting a hold of me, as I have found out.)
Allen, I agree, I have found this post very interesting, and I hope that Gene and the rest of the viewers here have found some things to think about. I appreciate your taking the time to write out your thoughts and beliefs, and your taking the time to read mine. I'll answer your questions in an email.
Dave, that is a fascinating table. I have not encountered that before. Thanks for sharing it.
Best regards,
Lincoln |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 1:51 pm
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If you sit on a railroad track, the end might be very near!  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 2:07 pm
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Dave,
While there's no explicit rule against religious discussion, in most sections of the forum such topics would be closed as "off topic". A discussion about the death experience is valid in Gone Home, but one about whether Jesus and Satan are brothers is clearly out of scope. Hence my little red flag.
I'm not monitoring this topic closely; Donna Dodd is the moderator here. Discussion of forum rules should be continued in Forum Feedback if necessary, not here.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 2:52 pm
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I'm surprised it's lasted this long. 
But, as I've said before, the whole concept of "going home" is religious.
By the way, how do you Christians out there, reconcile the concept of "Rest in Peace"?
Surely, according to Christian teachings, once one is dead one either goes to Heaven and becomes an Angel of God, or burns forever in Hell, or suffers in Purgotry. I don't see any resting there... |
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Michael Wolfe
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 3:51 pm
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| Isn't the old testament incompatible with Christianity? |
No.
| Quote: |
| Being a believer doesn't make you a scholar and my guess is few of us on this forum have the scholarly chops to seriously debate any religion's compatibility with another. |
Speak for yourself. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 4:56 pm
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Holy Scriptures are allegorically written for a purpose. The parables and tales are extended metaphors and those willing to read and meditate will arrive at their true meaning.
Because they are written for all generations it was necessary to style the writing this way.
Much of the writing is "the law" __ God's law, and it's quite discernible. |
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Donna Dodd
From:
Acworth, Georgia, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2013 6:21 pm
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The end is here.
_________________
Donna Dodd
Georgia Steel Guitar Association (GaSGA) Board Member & Website Administrator
"Every person is a new door to a different world."
- from movie Six Degrees of Separation
Come visit my steel guitar store on CafePress! http://www.cafepress.com/zoomwithaview
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