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Author Topic:  If you wear your E's on the right??? U-12
Niels Andrews


From:
Salinas, California, USA
Post  Posted 18 May 2012 5:06 pm    
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OK, if you have your E's on the right, what do you have on the left? I am thinking maybe LKL string 1 +1/2, 2 -1, 7+1/2 and LKR string 1+1,2-1/2,8-1. I am going crazy with these copedants. Right now have just been playing the E9 with ABC pedals and E levers and am keeping busy, but will be adding soon and want to get it right if that is possible.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 18 May 2012 10:37 pm    
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I have both "E" string changes on RKL.
Bb6 Unified, I go from D to E with a half-stop at Eb.
That's the biggest difference in the two "Universal" approaches. One starts with them already lowered.
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John Alexander

 

Post  Posted 19 May 2012 3:40 pm    
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Lane Gray wrote:
I have both "E" string changes on RKL.
Bb6 Unified, I go from D to E with a half-stop at Eb.


Have you got that up and running now? I'm just curious whether you are going to find you hate it or, like me, find that it works just fine.
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Lane Gray


From:
Topeka, KS
Post  Posted 19 May 2012 4:02 pm    
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I've started rodding. I see nothing so far to make me think it was a bad idea.
I'm gonna take the guitar to work next week and work on rodding it on my evening break.
It'd be nice to have it ready for my June 9 gig, but I doubt that'll happen.
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John Alexander

 

Post  Posted 19 May 2012 4:58 pm    
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Lane Gray wrote:
I see nothing so far to make me think it was a bad idea.


I agree with you of course. I was thinking of the players who prefer to have a lock on the knee lever so they don't have to hold it in place to be in the E9 mode - I think that having to hold it steady on a half stop might be way over the top for someone who prefers a lock.

BTW, I used a postal scale to get an idea of the additional force required to move my RKL past the half stop. I couldn't get a very accurate measure, but the scale indicates in the range of an extra pound to get beyond that point, measured at the tip of the lever. Surprised me that it's that much, because it doesn't feel overly stiff in actual use.

In answer to the questions posed by the original post, I too have my E and F levers on RKL and, translating to "E9th" my 3 left KLs lower strings 2, 3&6, and 5 a half step each, and string 7 a full step. The "String 2" and string 7 changes are together on LKR. "String 2" is really string 1 on the Bb6 - and except for that lower, all the other lowers on the LKLs are standard Bb6 Uni changes which are extremely useful not only in conjunction with the A&B pedals but also with the rest of the pedals, including those that resemble standard C6 changes.
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 5:16 am     Re: If you wear your E's on the right??? U-12
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Niels Andrews wrote:
(I) want to get it right if that is possible.


That's the weird and great thing about the steel. There is no right and wrong. It's purely a matter of personal preference. (In my opinion there is one exception to that- the vertical should raise the 2 F# strings to G natural, instead of lowering the 5th string the way many players do,) But the E raises and lowers and other changes can go wherever you want them.

It's as subjective as choice of color.
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Ken Metcalf


From:
San Antonio Texas USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 6:21 am    
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I have E lowers on RKL and E raises on LKL.
Its just how my first D-10 was set up and worked for me when I switched to U-12.
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Dave O'Brien


From:
Florida and New Jersey
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 2:04 pm     E's
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what Mike said.

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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 3:17 pm    
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I do not have a change lock. My RKR functions as a B6 "C" pedal when I release the LKR.

However, I never really learned to play B6. I do it all on the E9 side. The thing I like most about the universal tuning is the extended range down to low A, the same note as the 3rd string on a bass.

I don't like half stops, and had to have an extra knee lever to avoid having one. I also have a wrist lever, which is very cool in many ways, but can also get in the way when I'm playing up the neck.

(Note: The 3rd string drop from G# to F# is not working properly. I'll probably change it to a raise but I might remove it from the knee lever entirely. I haven't decided yet.)


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Niels Andrews


From:
Salinas, California, USA
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 5:22 pm    
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I don't have a vertical lever or a lock, so I am working with eight pedals and four knee levers.
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 20 May 2012 9:30 pm    
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Niels Andrews wrote:
I don't have a vertical lever or a lock, so I am working with eight pedals and four knee levers.


You might want to talk to Tom Bradshaw about adding a vertical. He's not that far from you.
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Paul Redmond

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 24 May 2012 12:12 am    
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E to D# on RKR, E to F on RKLfront, B (as in 9th string) to D on RKL rear.
G# to F# on #6 on LKL, E to F# on LKRfront all by itself (easy to reproduce Zane Beck "splits" that way). On LKRrear I bring 5 and 9 only to C....eliminates that knee-and-heel thing to get the lowered notes. I call it the Bob Carden change as he is the man who tossed it my way in 1978. I much prefer it to pulling the C# raises back to C's. There are definite advantages. I do have a vertical on the new guitars that merely drops #2 from D down to C#.
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Paul Redmond

 

From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 24 May 2012 12:18 am    
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I guess I should have explained in my prior post that the late Zane Beck is the man who convinced me that I should keep my "E changes" on the right knee instead of the left. I had formerly had them "divided"....I changed them to their present configuration per his advice in, I believe, 1980. I've never regretted either my decision or his advice.
PRR
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Henry Senior


From:
United Kingdom
Post  Posted 13 Jan 2013 3:59 pm    
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Quote:
In my opinion there is one exception to that- the vertical should raise the 2 F# strings to G natural, instead of lowering the 5th string the way many players do,


Mike, I'd be interested to hear why you think this?

Quote:
I guess I should have explained in my prior post that the late Zane Beck is the man who convinced me that I should keep my "E changes" on the right knee instead of the left. I had formerly had them "divided"....I changed them to their present configuration per his advice in, I believe, 1980. I've never regretted either my decision or his advice.


Paul, I've got a divided E setup and I am considering 'uniting' them! I'd like to hear why you prefer united.

many thanks,

Henry
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 13 Jan 2013 8:04 pm    
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Henry Senior wrote:
Quote:
In my opinion there is one exception to that- the vertical should raise the 2 F# strings to G natural, instead of lowering the 5th string the way many players do,


Mike, I'd be interested to hear why you think this?


Henry, The B to Bb on tihe 5th string is kin of a mystery change. It has a lot of hidden uses that are not readily apparent. And it it's on a vertical, people will be l4ess inclined to explore its possibilities.

One example of a hidden lick is to combine it with the E to F raise, then move the bar back to frets, release the B-Bb lever and add the A pedal.

Now the F# to G change is rarely used without the B pedal. Often it's used with both A and B. Sometimes it's used in conjunction with the E raise and the A pedal, the E lower and B pedal. But rarely by itself.

When you put the change on a vertical, you have some leverage against the it because you're stepping on 1 or 2 pedals. It's a matter of ergonomics, and musical logic.

This is of course just my opinion. There are those who disagree.
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Clete Ritta


From:
San Antonio, Texas
Post  Posted 14 Jan 2013 1:46 am    
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Ken Metcalf wrote:
I have E lowers on RKL and E raises on LKL...


Thats the way I set up my E9/B6. My S10 had E levers on the left, which is pretty common. I only had to adjust to the E lower now on RKL, which didnt take long. One obvious advantage of having Es on separate legs is going smoothly from one lever to the other. Wink

Clete
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post  Posted 14 Jan 2013 2:25 am    
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My former green guitar, shown in my avatar, came with the E's on the left knee, and I did the same thing Clete did (Hi Clete.) and moved the E lower to the RKL, but after a while I moved it back to the LKR.

It's true that going from one to the other is smoother when they are on different knees, but I found that if I raise my leg where to I'm making contact with the levers as close to the cross shaft as possible, I can go from one to the other pretty seamlessly, without getting the little bump at the point where neither of them is engaged. It's tricky, but it can be done.

My reasoning is that the levers are never used at the same time, but I use them both at one time or another in conjunction with a lot of other stuff, and I want my guitars to be able to handle any idea I might have.
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Micky Byrne


From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
Post  Posted 15 Jan 2013 3:16 pm     Re: If you wear your E's on the right??? U-12
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Neils, on both my U-12's (Carter and Shobud) ...RKR lowers E's ...RKL raises E's ... LKL double lower on string 2 (On the Carter my friend Richard Burton made a beautiful double lower device) ..precise and no overshoot on the 1st lower..also lowers the 8th string to D. LKR lowers 6th string G# to F# ... LKV Lowers 5th B to Bb and raises 1st string F# to G# ...
This is a little different, but with A and B pedals and the LKV, I get some good counterpoint licks.
Henry on the LKV B to Bb .. there are soooo many things that can be done...really!!!

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

www.micky-byrne.co.uk
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