AMaj13/E9 tuning

Karlis Abolins · From: (near) Seattle, WA, USA

On my S12 (7x5), I have been experimenting with tunings. I recently had a C13 tuning that was a dream in that it gave me every chord in the book at a single fret. However, I really missed the E9 A&B pedals and the voicings I frequently use. I experimented with combinations and nothing made sense until I laid the 13th chord (tuning) side by side with the E9th chord (tuning) just listing the steps of the intervals.



Maj13th			9th


---------------------------------------------------


13		F#	9


	++++			++++


11		D	7


	+++			+++


9		B	5


	+++			+++


Maj7		G#	3


	++++			++++


5		E	1


	+++


3		C#


	++++


1		A

I had to compromise and go to a Major 13 chord (tuning) rather than the Dominant 13 I started out with.
What this shows is that the E9th chord (tuning) is also the top of the AMaj13 chord (tuning). The Major 13 tuning is very powerful. Ed Packard has written a series of articles on the Major 13 tuning which have influenced my search for a tuning greatly. You can find them by searching the pedal steel forum.
I took the diagram above and started laying it out over the E9th tuning incorporating as much of the E9th tuning as possible. I ended up putting the speed strings in the their ascending order rather than on top. I also dropped the low D. This is what I ended up with.



Amaj13		E9th


------------------------------


	G#	3


13	F#	9(2)


	E	8(1)


11	D	7


9	B	5


Maj7	G#	3


6	F#	2


5	E	1


3	C#	6


2	B	5


1	A	4


5	E	1

I haven't finalized my pedals and knee levers but will keep the A & B pedals and the D & F Knee levers. The rest of the pedals and knee levers appear to be following my C13th tuning but arranging them to avoid conflicts has been a challenge.

Karlis

Karlis Abolins · From: (near) Seattle, WA, USA

I thought that I would demonstrate some of the power of the AMaj13 tuning for those of you not familiar with Ed Packard's articles. I will add two pedals, y, which lowers the bottom G# 1/2 step to G, and x, which lowers the C# 1/2 step to C. Moving between the open position and two frets up, I get the following chord combinations:



AMaj    11,9,8


Bm      11,9,8 +2 (x)


C#m     9,8,6


DMaj    9,8,6 +2 (x,y)


EMaj    8,6,5


F#m     8,6,5 +2 (y)


G#dim   6,5,4


AMaj    6,5,4 +2 (y)

By adding one more string on top of each chord you get the following:



AMaj7   11,9,8,6


Bm7     11,9,8,6 +2 (x,y)


C#m7    9,8,6,5


DMaj7   9,8,6,5 +2 (x,y)


EMaj7   8,6,5,4


F#m7    8,6,5,4 +2 (y)


G#dim7  6,5,4,2


AMaj7   6,5,4,2 +2 (y)

If you add one more string on top of each chord, you will get the following. (This only works for the first six positions because you run out of strings on top).



AMaj9   11,9,8,6,5


Bm9     11,9,8,6,5 +2 (x,y)


C#m9    9,8,6,5,4


DMaj9   9,8,6,5,4 +2 (x,y)


EMaj9   8,6,5,4,2


F#m9    8,6,5,4,2 +2 (y)

Another fascinating use of the x pedal comes into play as you move up the neck. In the last position you have to add the F knee lever. You can get an inversion with the B pedal.



AMaj  0 11,9,8 or 9,8,6 (B)


Bm   +2 11,9,8 (x) or 9,8,6 (x,B) 


C#m  +4 11,9,8 (x) or 9,8,6 (x,B)


DMaj +5 11,9,8 or 9,8,6 (B)


EMaj +7 11,9,8 or 9,8,6 (B)


F#m  +9 11,9,8 (x) or 9,8,6 (x,B)


G#dim +11 11,9,8 (x,F) or 9,8,6 (x,F,B)


AMaj +12 11,9,8 or 9,8,6 (B)

There are an abundance of chord possibilities located at other frets.

Karlis

[This message was edited by Karlis Abolins on 06 September 2002 at 12:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by Karlis Abolins on 06 September 2002 at 01:35 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Karlis Yes, I believe BE has posted a tuning similar to this, only E13 and also C13.

Lots of good stuff there. With the E13 you can add the A and B pedals and it is almost like E9.

Also as you say, the E to F and E to D# on knees. Oh ,so many ways to go...al

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

The short story of the 13 series tunings is that they can be applied (added into) any 6th based tuning with relative ease. The C6 tuning with the A and F on the bottom is almost there to start with (F,A,C,E,G,=FM9). The A6 tuning as commonly used needs a few more changes. Bb6 is also a good candidate.

The 13 tuning structure is a two octave seven tone chord approach; Most steel players think in terms of four tone single octave chord concepts and sometimes venture into the second octave with an added 9th or an 11th, ..the 13 series is the odd intervals of the scale in two sequential octaves.

The M13 is made up of the unaltered od interval scale notes, ..think stacked thirds. Chords are made up of the odd intervals in the scale, ..any sequential group of odd intervals from the scale is a chord of some kind that fits to harmonize the scale. Four sequential tones is a 7th of some type, 5 is a 9th, 6 is an 11th, and 7 is a 13th.

If the scale root for the M13 structure is on a music staff line, then all odd intervals are on the staff lines, and all even intervals will be in the spaces, ..easy to read music onto the strings as each string is a staff line for the IM13, and each string is a space note for the IIm13. If the scale root note is in a space, then all odd intervals are also spaces, and the even intervals are the lines.

If the applied changes can give M13, and m13 structures, you have all you need to harmonize the root scale in 3, 4, 5, 6, and seven tone chords within two frets.

Fitting/adding the 13 series to a standard E9 tuning is somewhat inconvenient as the octave note gets in the way. Fitting/adding the 13 series to an E9 universal tuning is quite simple. Get the 7th by lowering the octave note, the 9th is already there (F#), the 11th is G# raised to A, and the 13th is B raised to C#.

I use a 14 string E9/B6 universal for the 13 series and change the E9 to the EM13, E13, Em13, ..this puts the C13 series on fret 8 starting with string 11. To make the series extend downward, my 12th string is a C# (an A on the 8th fret).

I also use the B6 lock approach with seperate
B6 levers for the left knee (ala Bill Stafford). This approach allows having an E9 neck (lock off), a B6(C6) neck (lock on), or use it as the standard E9/B6 (lock off). The 12th string C# fits in with the IV chord (P1P2) as it is a 3rd, ..nice for cello sounds, ..with the I chord as it is a 6th, and with the V chord (B6) as it is a 9th.

To be amazed at the available chord structures, lay out the neck on paper for just the scale notes for the C scale as the M13 structure = F,A,C,E,G,B,D,F,A,C for strings 13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4 on fret 8. Now start naming chords starting with any string. Next look at fret 3 and name the chords (this would be a where you find the C chord with P1P2 activated on the E9 tuning = IV neck), ..then do the same at fret 1 (this is where the C chord is found in the B6 tuning = V neck). This is just the start, ..now look at the frets for available C root chords.

The E9 top strings are usually E,G#,D#,F#, ..I like E,F#,G#,C# as it gives the C6 upper end with the added 9th, but with a 6th on string 2 = a high A in C6 (fret 1).

There is a lot more to the 13 series, and it can be easily incorporated into the C6 tuning structure if one wants.

I plan to be at the Apache AZ steel jam on the 28th of Sept.. I will have several different "universal" setups there, one of which will be setup the way Bill Stafford uses it (Bill did the setup on this one) to get his lush sounds. If anyone is there they can sit and noodle on any of the units.

The world of PSG is just beginning........

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Thank you Ed, for an excellent presentation of the 13ths series!

The one tuning that is more familiar to me and easiest to play. is the E13 with E6.

The reason why, of course, is that I have been more or less playing at it for 60 years..........al

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

Re: Karlis & Ed.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a stack of notebooks full of Cho-ped-ents and charts full of different tunings and ideas!
My wife says I have obsessive-compulsive-disorder, OCD. I just tell her "Don't worry, Honey, it's just a disease that afflicts Steel Players, and isn't usually contagious, except to other Steel Players."
Regarding the A-13 concept: If you are willing to flat into the E-9th sound with pedals A&B ( out of the AMaj triad) you will be following a trail that was tried, tested, and found to be sound (no pun intended) over 20 years ago. Actually, if my memory serves me, I beleive I saw and heard Tom Cailey (not sure of the spelling of his last name, but pronounced as though "Kyley") using this during the late sixties. Tom had a smooth touch and a beautiful tone you couldn't tell he wasn't using an E-9th tuning on the country stuff. He was using a D-10 with the hybrid A/E tuning on the front neck. I was using a C Maj 9 tuning back then, mainly because I didn't know any better!
I really appreciate the comments made by both of you and I feel that we all gain and learn from one another when we compare notes like this.
Thanks guys!
W.C.

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