The Steel Guitar Forum Store 

Post new topic Help -- D-12-string pedal suggestions?
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  Help -- D-12-string pedal suggestions?
Fred Layman

 

From:
Springfield, Missouri USA
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2002 8:44 pm    
Reply with quote

I picked up an early D-12 MSA from an estate sale a while back that I want to rehab with an all new changer mechanism and undercarriage when I can get some time from other building projects. It presently has a double-raise, double-lower changer and has four rows of holes drilled in the endplate for pedal tuning, two for raises and two for lowers.

But there is space to drill another set of holes between the rows and have a triple-raise, double-lower, or a double-raise,triple-lower, or any combination of five changes on any string.

I will be making the changer levers so I'm requesting information from you 12-string players as to where a triple-raise OR a triple-lower is needed (or you wish you had). The guitar has 10 pedals, so I could even have most or all of a Universal tuning on the front neck (by having a couple of pedals working on both necks).

So -- where should I have a triple-raise and where should I have a triple-lower on given strings? And what changes should be on a pedal and what should be on a knee lever? Have at it friends.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Gil Berry

 

From:
Westminster, CA, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 5:11 am    
Reply with quote

Boy! You are opening a can of worms here! My 2 cents is that most likely a triple raise, double lower would be best option, and with a D12 you should go extended E9th on the front, extended C6th on the back .. the E9th neck adds low notes to standard 10 string E9, the C6 adds high....This in my, very amateurish, humble opinion...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Chris Forbes

 

From:
Beltsville, MD, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 7:12 am    
Reply with quote

I started to think of the possiblities, I gave myself a headache and gave up. Sorry Fred, I'm of no help whatsoever!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jim Smith


From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 8:15 am    
Reply with quote

My D-12 Dekley has triple raise and double lower. Even with 10&12 and some compensator rods, I've never found a case where I needed or wanted more of either.

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@charter.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-13 8&8=-
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Joerg Hennig


From:
Bavaria, Germany
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 8:57 am    
Reply with quote

If I ever had a D-12 (but I´ll probably never get one because it´s more weight than I care to lift) I would probably draw some ideas from Buddy Cage´s copedent (for the guitar that unfortunately was stolen from him) on JB Arnold´s website. Extended E9 and C6. That one covers about every change I would ever want to use. As for the changer, when I was playing an S-12 extended E9 with double-raise/double-lower, in at least one case I had to set up an additional pull with a barrell at the bellcrank. (4th string - single E to F# - just can´t be without that one.) There was another one, but I can´t remember right now. So I´d say, if you want some more than standard changes, three raise holes would be a more elegant solution.

Good luck, Joe H.

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 07 June 2002 at 11:03 AM.]

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Bobby Lee


From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 9:10 am    
Reply with quote

The Sierra Session is triple raise, double lower. Copedents that require triple lower capability are pretty rare.

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Peter

 

Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 9:23 am    
Reply with quote

On my S12 I have a standard arrangement as follows:

string 1 - No raises, no lowers
string 2 - 2 lowers
string 3 - 1 raise
string 4 - 3 raises, 1 lower
string 5 - 3 raises, 1 lower
string 6 - 2 raises
string 7 - 1 lower
string 8 - 1 raise, 3 lowers
string 9 - 2 raises
string 10- 1 raise
string 11- 2 raises, 1 lower
string 12- 1 raise, 1 lower

This uses theJeff Newman copedent with the exception of a lower to D on string 8.
I don't know what to suggest for the other neck.
Maybe use it for experimental tunings.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh Fender Artist S10, Remington U12, Hilton VP, Gibson BR4 lapsteel, Guya Stringmaster copy, MusicMan112RP
www.ucaa.co.za

[This message was edited by Peter on 07 June 2002 at 10:46 AM.]


Jim Smith


From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 9:36 am    
Reply with quote

I can see where a Universal tuning would use three lowers, in fact that may have been one of the reasons to make the triple raise/lower in the first place.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Al Marcus


From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 12:00 pm    
Reply with quote

Jim- How true. Reece had a triple lower on his S12 tuning. There are times when you have to have it to get it all.

But agree, we do pretty well now with Both Triple Raises and Triple Lowers. ....al
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Fred Layman

 

From:
Springfield, Missouri USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 5:24 pm    
Reply with quote

Thanks, fellows. Keep 'em coming. In the past I placed a C6 chromatic tuning on a 12-string, i.e., the standard C6th with a G on the third string and D and F on strings 2 and 1, for a C,D,E,F,G chromatic sequence. I prefer that over the much larger strings at the 11 and 12 positions. Any one else doing that?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Jim Palenscar

 

From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2002 10:59 pm    
Reply with quote

On my universals I have triple raises on string #'s 4,5 and 8- no triple lowers~ I have a few changers around if you're interested, Fred.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

Chick Donner

 

From:
North Ridgeville, OH USA
Post  Posted 8 Jun 2002 2:46 pm    
Reply with quote

Yeah, Fred, I'm doing that on the C neck. Gotta run to a gig right now, but will call on the fone and discuss with you. CJC/CD
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Jim Smith


From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
Post  Posted 10 Jun 2002 10:30 am    
Reply with quote

My 12 string C6 is also like yours Fred, strings 1-5 are F, D, G, E, C. That's the standard tuning we shipped at Dekley for D-12's, but it's been too many years to remember where we came up with that.

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@charter.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-13 8&8=-
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Rick Schmidt


From:
Prescott AZ, USA
Post  Posted 10 Jun 2002 12:01 pm    
Reply with quote

I also have one of those D12(10+6)Dekley monsters. I usually keep it at home for my practice axe, although on jazz gigs it's just great! I probably wouldve put that middle D on the C6 neck like Buddy and Mike Cass ect., except that the round crossrods (like on the MSA's) made it just too big of a hastle for my limited mechanical skills. I put a high A on the first string instead of the F, and dedicated a KL to raise both E's to F. I also have a floor pedal that
raises the middle C to D.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

bob grossman

 

From:
Visalia CA USA
Post  Posted 10 Jun 2002 12:17 pm    
Reply with quote

Fred:

If you use C6th, have both a G and D on top and a D and C on the bottom.
Raise the D to Eb on the #9 (boo-wah, although I hat that term)pedal a.long with the three other changes.

Add a G to F lower.

Add Maurice's 4 note lower, top and octave C to B, lower octave E to D, lower octave A to G.

Lower octave E to D by itself.

Raise top E and octave E to F.

I assume you lower the A's to Ab and raise them to Bb.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail


All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

Steel Guitar Forum LLC
PO Box 237
Mount Horeb, WI 53572 USA


Click Here to Send a Donation

Email admin@steelguitarforum.com for technical support.


BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles for
Band-in-a-Box

by Jim Baron
HTTP