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Topic: Whay doesn't anybody strum? |
Bill Llewellyn
From:
San Jose, CA
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Posted 4 May 2002 7:18 pm |
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Most of the steel playing I hear consists of single note or 2 note harmonized licks, or 3 or 4 note chords. These include pulls, bends, and slides, of course, which allow them to be very complex. But I almost never hear anyone take a pick and just strum 6, 8, or 10 strings for a sustained chord, or even for choppier rhythm work. I know a lot of the changes on steel require that some strings be kept muted because they don't fit the chord of the moment, but I also know there are a lot of chords I can get on my U12 by just a straight strum across several strings (with appropriate pedals/levers) that are very rich and full. Yet I haven't picked up on this kind of thing much at all in the recordings I've heard. Has anyone else noticed this?
[Sorry for the misspelled title.][This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 04 May 2002 at 08:19 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 May 2002 8:21 pm
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Hi Bill, some of us did a lot of strumming in the old days. Full chords....al  |
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Steven Knapper
From:
Temecula Ca USA
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Posted 4 May 2002 8:50 pm
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| I agree Al, I just got taught that in the last couple of weeks. A strum after a few notes of ending is kinda cool. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Chris DeBarge
From:
Boston, Mass
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Posted 5 May 2002 7:45 am
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| I do it all the time on the C6 neck when playing western-swing kinda stuff. But now that I think about it, I don't hardly ever strum on the E9. Good topic! |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2002 7:53 am
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I've been doing a lot of strumming on the front neck of my Williams lately.
The problem is voicing. As you move towards lower notes, you need wider intervals between the notes to keep the chord from sounding muddy. Even on C6th or U-12 you can strum chords that have low thirds and minor thirds. These don't come across very well in a band situation.
On a standard guitar, the lowest full triad that is commonly played is G (G B D G). On your U-12 it's an E (E G# B E). This is a pretty mushy sound. The chord works much better if you leave out the third in the low octave, in my opinion.
You know from your piano playing, Bill, the kind of figures you play with your left hand often omit the third or fifth of the chord. Think of those low strings on your steel the same way. Voicing is important!
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 5 May 2002 8:09 am
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Because the steel guitar's roots are Hawaiian guitar, cloned from a spanish guitar, it was only natural that "strumming" be the standard way of playing. And for years this was the norm.
I have heard this statement many many times, "I love chords!. The bigger the better!"
When I was taught to play, much of it was strumming. This all because the regular guitarists did this. And it was an unwritten law that strumming was "how" one should play the steel guitar. The low bass A tuning (no 3rd in the bass register), was invented for just this purpose.
As the years went by, and the Hawaiian guitar became the steel guitar, followed by the addition of pedals, it became more and more, an instrument of its on. That is, primarily a melody and expressive instrument.
As such, the art of strumming has faded greatly, except for a few instances. Western swing on C6 being one exception.
Jerry Byrd has talked about this on several ocassions over the years. He said, "One of the problems with 'strumming' is, NO matter how hard we try, it does not duplicate the sound of a regular guitar. You can play the exact same notes in the exact same spelling and it does not sound like a regular guitar." (Note: I have paraphrased his quote)
The harmonics (overtones) of a steel guitar are sooo unique and beautiful that it begs for single, two or 3 note playing IMO.
Yes, strumming can be done with great affect. I do it sometimes. But most players nowadays, rarely strum. But I don't think their playing is diminished in any way by not doing it. So, if one wants to strum, Strum a way
carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 05 May 2002 at 09:13 AM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 5 May 2002 8:39 am
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| I was always told it's a "lead" instrument although I don't know why you couldn't strum. We play some cha cha's and I'll mute the strings and kind of rake the beat out on the srings kind of like a guitar player would in a rhythmic pattern. I've seen guys that can rake with the thumb and third finger to sound as good as any guitar player. Very cool technique. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 5 May 2002 9:10 am
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I sometimes do a thing where you kind of flick you wrist and strum forward and backward with the thumbpick.
You can use a swingy 1-4-5 progression to get the feel of it.
I typically slide into the chord from one fret below and aggressively flick my hand/thumbpick to get the strum going.
I guess a good example would be "Rock Around The Clock" by Bill Haley.
You know, that one verse towards the end where the band puches all together (on this example I pretty much play right on the fret with vibrato, but little to no slide up).
I would strum it like this:
F=forward strum, B=backwards strum.
F F F
F F BFBF
F F F
F F BFBF
Then move to the 4 chord, same strum pattern, ect...
The backward strum might feel weird at first but making that quick transition from forward to backward is important.
"In The Mood" is another one that you could strum a bunch of big fatties to get that horn section feel and attack.
You can get some cool sounding dissonant, texture-ee chords sometimes by doing big sweepy strums on E9th. But if falls more into the Avante Guard style of steel than it does in country, ie movie soundtracks, ect..[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 05 May 2002 at 05:07 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 5 May 2002 11:11 am
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As a 4 piece band(Dale Watson and his lonestars)Bass;Drums;guitar, and steel; I do alot of various back up on my steel when Dale takes a lead.
Bill we are on our way out west; and if you come out to one of our shows, you will hear and see me back Dale up alot of different ways; including strum; and other rythmic techniques.
Ricky |
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Louie Hallford
From:
denison tx
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Posted 5 May 2002 8:57 pm
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Great coincidence.About two weeks ago I purchased several items from a lady whose steel player husband had just died.
Included in the items were about 20 to 30 old instructional tapes that were released through Duane Marrs of Marrs Steel Guitar Company.
Amoung those tapes were several tapes by Paul Franklin. One of them was discussing and demonstrating the difference of the C6 styles of Chaulker and Maurice Anderson.
A very interesting tape. What was most interesting was Pauls demo of how much more versatility you have in chord choices and chord inversions by picking string individual sting combinations instead of strumming. This was not a knock on either style or either player as he has utmost repect for the contribution of each.
I was convinced, however that if I ever hope to play real jazz tunes with proper chord voicings there will be little or no strumming.If I am going to play Western swing I will continue to include some strumming.
Without my saying,most of you are well aware of Chaulker's big chord strumming style built around the use of a lot of diminished chord.On the other hand Reese will seldom , if ever use a strum. "Quote the tape and PF"
[This message was edited by louie hallford on 05 May 2002 at 10:01 PM.] [This message was edited by louie hallford on 05 May 2002 at 10:07 PM.] |
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Bill Llewellyn
From:
San Jose, CA
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 6 May 2002 11:17 am
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Hey b0b,
I think you've got it nailed about the intervals on the low strings. Before I left California in the 80's Blackie Taylor had a show at his store by Al Petty. Al was promoting Sierra steels then and had an E9/B6 and his own favorite tuning (which I forgot now what it was) on a double 12. His tuning had wide intervals in the bass strings and he demonstrated chords on both necks and showed how much cleaner they were when the close intervals were eliminated in the bass area. I believe that Hal Rugg's tuning is something like that also. I saw a universal copendant one time which had the regular top ten strings of the E9th tuning and then a low E and B in positions 11 & 12 below that. It was set up in a way where you could do chords like Al Petty's. This approach limits soloing in the lower registers without a lot of bar movement though. On Blackie Taylor's 12 string tuning his bottom three strings are A E A for much the same reason......JH
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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.
[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 06 May 2002 at 12:18 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 6 May 2002 1:21 pm
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Hey Bill that West coast schedule will be up on the Tour Dates at DaleWatson.com> as soon as the idiots get it up there.....ha 
Ricky |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 6 May 2002 3:42 pm
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Bill L.
It is doubtful if the last variable of every technique in steel guitar mastery will be reached in this century and beyond. A musician asked me pointedly, if I could strum, when I played Spanish guitar years ago. Now I know what he had in mind, after listening to hundreds of lead players. The Everly Brothers, are fine strummers by definition, on Spanish guitar. Jumping back to the main thread, there are some great strumming exercises on steel utilizing the E to F change in combination with the "A" pedal. Remove finger pick from index finger, and you can play loads of full chord harmonics. The melodies can be "backlashed" strummed for a fresh new sound. Position your right hand 12 frets above the fret that you select. when you move to the 4 and 5 chord changes, always relocate the right hand over the 12th fret above the bar hand. "Blue Spanish Eyes" can be strummed, using the necessary chords to maintain the melody lines. Of course this would not be played with harmonics. If the tune is played in the "A" chord, the 1st chord will be, Bb diminished seven on the 5th fret. (E9th tuning)
This requires one beat duration. The longest rest is 6 beats as the song progresses into a Latin flavored melody, with melodious minors.
Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 07 May 2002 at 02:30 AM.] |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 7 May 2002 5:05 am
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| There are probably a number of reasons why strumming never has developed as a serious technique, at least not in the sense of how a 6-string guitar is strummed. Amoung reasons that come to mind is that to create serious strummng, i.e. rhythm, requires a complex combination of physical motions with one's wrist and arm which are probably quite difficult to do while sitting in front of a steel. Whereas a guitar is held next to one's body and can readily be positioned for the intense physical action of strumming, a steel can't be. Second, playing steel with fingerpicks makes to very difficult to strum, but playing with a guitar pic would most likely be limiting to everything else. Third, the evolution of most guitar player's strumming starts with an acoustic guitar, where the rhythm and percussive sense can really be strong. Electric guitar rhythm is not as useable, and in most recording situations, it's the acostic guitar doing the real strumming/rhythm playing. And there are other reasons as well. Bottom line: As a sporadic effect, fine. But you would have to work hard to develop a serious practical technique to make strumming a steel guitar be similar to strumming a 6-string guitar. It would have to be integrated into the normal way steel is played, and teachable to students as well. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 7 May 2002 9:10 am
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When I started to take lessons on Hawaiian guitar about 50 years ago, you were always taught to strum. I think this was very important, particularly with Hawaiian music. I think as more instruments were added to the group: spanish guitar, ukulele, bass and etc. is became less and less important for the steel player to add to the rhythm.
Uff-Da! |
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