| Author |
Topic: Whats the differance between a bolt on and a wrap around ?? |
Dan Murphy
From:
Missouri, USA
|
Posted 15 Dec 2008 8:48 pm |
|
Hi all, I have never owned or played an Emmons so I dont know how to spot the differances.  Sorry for asking a GREEN HORN Question!  |
|
|
|
Mike Cass
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 8:00 am
|
|
The Emmons wraparound model was the guitar originally designed by Buddy Emmons.
They were produced from '64 thru '65.
The wraparound refers to the neck wrapping totally around the changer while not contacting it at any point. This guitar originally featured the changer fingers on 3/8" axles which was then changed to 1/2" and then to 9/16" in late '64-early '65. Additionally, the early guitars had open pillars which meant that you could see the changer axle ends from the front and back and these pillars featured no arms extending under the pickup toward the keyhead. This first design, while producing sweet overtones and incredible sustain had(in a few cases)the misfortune of causing the body(at the changer cutout)to warp forward towards the keyhead thus allowing the changers to contact the neck, causing the scale to be slightly off though they still sounded great in that condition, imho. This problem was remedied between guitars #17 and #18 with the addition of the aforementioned pillar arms, causing the stress of the tuning to be transfered up the guitar and keeping the 24 1/4" scale intact. At that time they also enclosed the axle in the pillars, thus removing the opening in the pillar face.
The bolt-on guitar refers to the next model produced starting around '66. This guitar featured the changers mounted directly to the necks by way of milled ledges supporting the pillars with the now-enclosed pillars screwed down to the necks with an 8/32" oval-head machine screw. This model obviously had no pillar arms as the mounting was complelely different, but they did have a small block machined in the back to house the 8'32" mounting screw.
One look at each model, paying attention to these details, will surely give you the visual info to discern the difference, should you ever run up on one in your travels. Maybe Chris Lucker or someone will post a few picks to show you the difference. I know Nick Reed has a couple of bolt-ons that he might supply you with pics of if you ask him.
hope this helps,
MC |
|
|
|
chas smith
From:
Encino, CA, USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 9:55 am
|
|
I don't have a bolt on pic, but this is my 1965 wraparound. It's a D-11 and it sounds as good as you think it does:
Last edited by chas smith on 16 Dec 2008 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 9:57 am
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 9:58 am
|
|
| The above pic has been my Windows 2000 splash screen for several years on my office PC. |
|
|
|
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 10:07 am
|
|
| What funtion did the cut tail actually perform? |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 1:04 pm
|
|
the cuttail was the final improvement made to the p/p changer.
it allowed buddy emmons to produce beautiful sounds via 'the blade'! |
|
|
|
Dan Murphy
From:
Missouri, USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 5:19 pm
|
|
Wow thanks guys, I have just sold my shobud and thinking of trying a Emmons. Thanks again for every bodies time!  |
|
|
|
Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 5:40 pm
|
|
'66 Bolt-on
 |
|
|
|
Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 6:01 pm
|
|
Dan,
Getting a push/pull Emmons is a life changing experience to many steelers. They are remarkably small and durable. They stay in tune good, sound fantastic and actually aren't as hard (as people say) to work on. Now is a great time to buy one. |
|
|
|
Bill Simmons
From:
Keller, Texas/Birmingham, AL, R.I.P.
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 6:07 pm My Bestest Buddy in The World!
|
|
| Oh Danny Boy...when you get a minute, call me at 817.929.8063...I got some news for you...Bill |
|
|
|
Dave Thimot
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 7:47 pm
|
|
New question for all you guys out there that are just full of information. What is an SKH?
_________________
Dave |
|
|
|
Jim Park
From:
Carson City, Nv
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 8:03 pm emmons ?
|
|
| Short Key Head, it refers to all pull LeGrande guitars |
|
|
|
Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 8:05 pm
|
|
Roger: I have heard two reasons for the cut-tail design. 1) It seperates the changer from the neck to give more stable tuning from the bolt-on changer (the changer bolted to the neck). The original wrap-around had the changer unconnected to the neck, so in a way this is a similar principle (I have two bolt-ons and their tuning is pretty stable). 2) It made it easier to work on the guitar as the cut-tail allows you to remove the neck without having to pull the changer out of the body.
Cliff |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
|
|
|
David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 9:48 pm
|
|
| Okay, as long as we are asking this stuff, what's the deal with the fat back cult? Am I correct that this means the back apron had no cut out for leg clearance? What would be the advantage of a fat back? |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 16 Dec 2008 10:54 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| Am I correct that this means the back apron had no cut out for leg clearance? |
Yes.
| Quote: |
| What would be the advantage of a fat back? |
Well, it does add additional mass to the body in a particular way - not exactly sure I know enough to competently quantify its pluses and minuses. I do know I like my fatback push-pull a lot, though. For lack of a better word, its natural resonance has a lot of meat to the sound. But it does require me to raise it up even yet a bit more than I normally do, since my legs definitely require quite a bit more clearance than the average player's. |
|
|
|
Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 17 Dec 2008 4:03 pm
|
|
here is a cuttail design.
 |
|
|
|
Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
|
Posted 18 Dec 2008 1:57 pm
|
|
Folks,
here's a rare bird: this is my '72 "fatback" guitar with metal necks with bolt-on changers. From what I have been able to learn about this guitar it came from Emmons with wood necks, and someone converted it to metal necks with the bolt-on changers. I wish I knew who did the conversion  .
I have a stock '66 bolt-on, and this guitar does have a grittier, more middy tone than the '66, but so much else beside the cabinets are different that I don't know how much difference in tone comes from having a fat back vs. a cutback.
As far as "why the fatback design?", consider that the earliest Emmons and Sho-Buds, as well as Bigsbys, had no rear apron, then Emmons and Sho-Bud added rear aprons, then Emmons did fatbacks, then Emmons went back to cutbacks. Great guitars! The bolt-on is a very vibrant and dynamic guitar to play
God bless Shot Jackson, Buddy Emmons, and Ron Lashley.
Merry Christmas!
 |
|
|
|
Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
|
Posted 20 Dec 2008 10:51 am
|
|
| This is great - gotta love the Forum. I didn't know any of this Emmons stuff before this thread. |
|
|
|
