How to get better sound from a camcorder?

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

I'm trying to get a decent sound file on a video.

The built in microphone in my JVC camcorder distorts quite a bit. There is a plug for an external mic but it has no control for the signal and it distorts as well.

Anyone know of a digital camcorder with a mic control? Some sort of trim device between the mic and the camcorder might help.

I tried making a separate sound file but can't get it to sync up with the video in my video editing program (Ulead)

I would welcome any suggestions.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Steve, I would love to know myself...have no idea. But one who might know something would be Gary Lee Gimble. He told me he's working on the same problem. Maybe he's got it figured out by now. Send him a forum email or pm.
Good luck and be sure to let me know if you learn something!

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

For starters, don't ask Gimble. He hasn't recovered from the frontal labotomy yet (typo). :-)

Years ago, when I was using the (at that time) NEW JVC recorder, with the 10 pound portable battery pack, I had the same problem. What I ended up doing to solve the problem was go to radioshack and put a signal reducer in the loop between the mic and the camera. Keep in mind that I also needed to use an external mike to accomplish this. Hopefully you have an external mike input. It was this tape that helped me get a deal for "Cowboy Jazz" on the Rounder label. Barry Sless was playing his butt off on a 12 string single neck ShoBud.
_________________
Jeff Hyman
jeffshobud@gmail.com
Sho~Bud LDG
WEBB and Fender Deluxe
www.cactus.com

John Roche · From: England

Unless you use a pro cam you will get poor results.
The only option is to record to separate recorder and sync it in a good editor such as Avid Pro Xpress.
I do a lot of video work such as weddings and promo dvd for rock bands in the UK and here in Spain, I use a Canon mx2 and get great audio as there are very good controls on the Canon.
You could try to shield the Mic with some foam to reduce the audio levels , most audio distortion comes from the bass or standing to close to speakers ,
a little trick is to use your zoom and stand back from what ever you videoing ,

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

Thanks for the suggestions. I tried a different old camcorder and I got cleaner audio with it.....I wonder if I damaged the mic circuit in the JVC by overdriving it.....it seem over sensitive now. I was thinking along the lines that Jeff mentioned with a signal attenuator between the mic and camera....it does have a aux mic in plug. I have an electronics friend who might be able to build something.

Gordy Hall · From: Fairfax, CA.

"I tried making a separate sound file but can't get it to sync up with the video in my video editing program (Ulead)"

Steve,

A couple suggestions. I do lots of video, and I use a Zoom H4 to record the sound, using either the mics or a line mix from the board, depending on circumstances. (I've also used mini-discs).

For around $100 you can get a new copy of Adobe Premiere 'Elements' that is a MUCH better video editing program than Ulead.

I put the sound into the computer as a .wav file, and then put the video (and camera sound) into the computer with Premiere. I put both the sound file and the video/sound file onto the timeline. I take it down to the one-frame level, then line up the two audio track wave forms to match, then silence the camera audio once it's lined up. After a couple times, it's pretty easy and fast. I do suggest you do a song at a time to make sure the sound and audio stay in sync, then render the song.

It's the same method I use to line up two or three cameras at a time. It's also interesting to sometimes add a bit of the camera sound for 'ambience' and fullness in case the board mix doesn't have all the instruments, etc.

I've also used the same process with a mix-down from an ADAT and 3 cameras. You can see examples of this if you go to www.ancientfuture.com website, I've done all the video he has up there.

You can see samples of the same method using the Zoom or mini-discs at my Youtube site. The stuff with Danny Montana and the Bar Association was done with the zoom, the Steve Winwood stuff with a mini-disc. (www.youtube.com/Gordy94930)

Good luck, it you have any question, just e-mail me or ask here.

Gordy Hall
Gordyo Video Productions
Hack pedal steel player, too.

John Roche · From: England

An easy way to sync is to clap your hands in front of the camera and within earshot of the mic , you then can see the hand clap and hear the clap sound, old movie trick...

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

I would have thought with all the modern technology, there would be a simple solution... like an onboard mike "input" control... built in or external. Trying to sync up an audio and video seems like to much of a hassle. To add to my previous post, the radioshack solution was NOT without some issues. There was no clean way to put the unit in the loop. I had to literally cut, soder and tape to put it all together.... but it worked. All that happened behind the scene was the strength of the audio signal was reduced between the mike and the camera just enough to get rid of the distortion.
_________________
Jeff Hyman
jeffshobud@gmail.com
Sho~Bud LDG
WEBB and Fender Deluxe
www.cactus.com

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

Thanks for all the good suggestions. For a short term fix I turned down the volume, cut the highs, and switched to a more mellow sounding guitar with some improvement.

I've got an order in for the free trial version of Adobe Premier Elements...I'll see if I can figure out how to sync up a separate audio file.

Someone should make a microphone module to plug into the aux microphone plug found on most camcorders.....it could have a signal control knob and a XLR microphone input like on the pro type camcorders. Maybe even phantom power for a condenser mic. Maybe someone has already built one.

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

I wonder if a volume pedal could be used to cut the signal level from a microphone. I will try it.

Bruce Snow · From: Neustadt, Ontario, Canada

Steve, I'm using adobe premium pro-2 & i'm able to sync my seperate audio from my camera no prob & then delete the camera audio,works for me. you can also have many video tracks as well. great program! IMO. Bruce

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

Steve,

Are you positive that there is not a menu item on your camcorder that can turn the internal compressor (automatic gain control or AGC) for the internal mic on or off and then control the input level manually? You mentioned break up of the recorded audio signal...perhaps these controls I mentioned are available on your camera?

If you've got an aux input I'll bet there is a level control for it...perhaps it's not intuitive to find on the menu?

You guys that are taking several camera takes and posting them into an editing time line...that sounds like fun!

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

I wanted to report back on the experiment of using a volume pedal to cut the microphone output. It worked....best setting is a just short of full on. It souinds decent. My friend is going to build me a box with an audio potentiometer and a manual control dial.

I read the manual on the camcorder and can't find any way to adjust the sound level. When an external mic is connected 2 level indicators come on( left and right) The external mic imput is a stereo minijack.. The level indicators don't seem very accurate and behave irratically. I try to keep them in the green and out of the red.

I got the free trial version of Adobe Premier Elements and I was able to crudely sync up a video track and a separate audio track.....I need to find some instructions for the program to do it more precisely.

It's been fun. I want to thank you all for your help.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Semi-Pro camcorders like the Sony PD-150(now called the PD-170)and a few others have built-in stereo XLR mic preamps w/phantom power.You can pick up a used low hour one for under $2K. It will always be easier to just get good sound in the first place than to try to sync it together afterwords. Anyone who's had to do that will tell you they'd gladly rather have coughed up $200 for one of these: http://beachtek.com/dxa2s.html A few years ago before these were available,I built my own for use with my Canon L-1 and it worked fine.I think it was about $40 worth of parts and 2 hours work.It's just a glorified stereo DI box with passive volume pots. I added a ground lift and a 10/20 dB pad.You can buy battery powered in-line phantom power supplies as well. If you do have to sync stuff in post,Final Cut Pro is the program to have.

Steve Benzian · From: Burlingame, CA USA

Good info, Michael. Thanks.

Colm Chomicky · From: Kansas, (Prairie Village)

I have a low cost mini DV camcorder. I checked the owners manual and the default set-up on the sound is a 12 bit setting, but the manual says for higher sound quality use the menu control to set to 16 bit. Maybe that is just wishful thinking, but I am going to play around at the 16 bit setting to see if I hear any difference in loud situations when the recorded sound gets tend distorted with the bass and drums thumping. There is also an electronic "wind screen" setting (default on) that can be turned off via the menu.

I have an external mic with a windscreen that has better specs in terms of max sound levels compared to the internal mic but I have not tried it on the camcorder yet to see if any improvement. Guess I will find out eventually next time I try to record in a loud environment. All I know right now is internal mic + fake windscreen setting on + 12 bit + loud = distortion. If external mic with real windscreen + 16 bit + loud turns out equally distorted, I figure I am just going to have to live with it. If it turns out not perfect but an improvement I probably would be happy.

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